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Nikon Monarch BDC vs Zeiss Conquest Rapid Z?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/2008 at 22:49
wamshane View Drop Down
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Looking at the information on paper it might appear that the Nikon Monarch 2-5-10 with the BDC reticle is a bit more versatile scope than the Zeiss Conquest 3-9 with the Rapid Z reticle.  One large commercial dealer in my area said it is a toss up.  The other dealer says no way ...the Zeiss Conquest is a step or two above the Nikon Monarch.

The Zeiss Rapid Z reticle does seem to be less obtrusive than the Monarch BDC.  This rifle (270 Winchester) scope setup will primarily be used for hunting situations with some occasional target shooting.
 
Anyone out there have first hand experience with the scopes?  I am particularly interested in the field/practicality usage of the Nikon BDC and Zeiss Rapid Z reticles.
 
Thanks !
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/2008 at 23:22
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Here is where we burst your bubble.  Balistic reticles in second focal plane scopes only work at the HIGHEST power of the scope for estimating known holdover. Since most hunters hunt stalking with the variable scope set at low  to mid range powers the reticle causes many a miss as they fail to understand the system.  There are a few FFP front focal plane scopes out there where the hold over remains the same at all powers typically these are expensive tactical scopes. The way to get the bullet to strike on target at various distances is to dial in correction like one would do with a tactical scope. Kahles multizero scopes do something similar but without as fancy of target  knobs.   See http://www.kentonindustries.com/ for info on balistic compensated target knobs and bear in mind that most Leupold VXIII scopes can be ordered with either covered target knobs or M1 tactical knobs.  
 
As for the two scopes you mention the Zeiss is better glass. Also I am not too wild about the circle system for ranging however I took a nice 9 point last winter with a Nikon Omega.
As long as you understand that the balistic reticle only works at the highest power you will know if it is right for you. Test your setup on the range to be sure what your results will be.
I think the Rapid Z 1000 is the most interesting of the line as it does not require that the scope have huge amounts of internal adjustment like most long range setups.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2008 at 00:05
wamshane View Drop Down
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good golly miss molly ...thank you for the insight ... guess I was looking for a "magic wand" solution and if I understand what you said it might be better for me to save the dollars and just get a nice duplex reticle of sorts.  I will have few if any target shots over 250 yards and I suspect most will be less than 200.  Maybe I will even "step down" to a quality 1-6 or similar...
 
Don't think I want to spend the big bucks for now so perhaps just a Leupold with the long range extra dots to kind of help me figure how much to hold over to guesstimate.  I would expect my guide to have a rangefinder of sorts to help the guessing.
 
Thanks again.  I need to looking a little more into what you said including some of the terminology that is new to me.
 
Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2008 at 07:02
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While 2nd focal plane ballistic reticles do function at a certain magnification, with a little practice and range time, you could note down or even memorize the POI of your scope from the lowest to the highest magnification. This would give you potentially more versatility in taking shots at further ranges intended for the scopes reticle. 
I do own the new  nikon monarch  5 to20x44 and the reticle is indeed thicker than i expected but it's very useable  for hunting specially at max mag. At 5x though, the reticle is just too thick and i have a hard time seeing bullet holes at 30 to 50 yards when using the crosshair. If you use the circle though as your aimpoint, it seems easier and kinda functions like a peep sight. In fact i know a couple of shooters who specifically use the bdc circle instead for shooting paper with much success.
I don't own a zeiss conquest but i have looked thru one with a rapid z reticle and it does seem better being that the crosshair is thinner. Wasn't able to pit it side by side by the monarch but if i remember correctly, the field of view of the zeiss and the color contrast was better than my monarch.  Big%20Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2008 at 09:00
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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the Z calculator at the zeiss web site will allow you to "readjust" impact to the points desire based on the ballistic profile of the load you are using.  sfp and bdc are a paradigm-- difficult for a lot of shooters to make the shift. the nikon and leo use their bars at whole interger ranges that is easy for shooters to comprehend, (100,200,300 etc), when in fact the system may have the bar or dot at some odd number like 247 yds, much like a mil-dot system. the exbal program at the web will "recalulate" the values and spit out the magnification that will come closet to these whole integer values which is usually easier for most people to use. When you think about it, what does it matter , because most hunting is done at unknown distance anyway.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2008 at 09:05
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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would add that ranging with sfp can also be done on any power, since the relationship is linear and the target ht is fixed. Leo has been doing this for about 10 years now on their orginal duplex reticles and vx3 scopes, simple place the top on the back of the animal and turn the power ring until the point of the duplex on the bottom and read the distance off of the scope power ring marker.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2008 at 22:55
wamshane View Drop Down
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Thank you again to everyone re the additional feedback ... I am learning something with each response ... I was not aware of how the Leupold VX III duplex reticle worked but I do seem to recall the yardage indications on the power ring ... so tomorrow I will be going to my local dealer to see if I can use something simple like this ...
I wonder if the Zeiss Conquest has something similar as for some reason I seem to like the way it is easier to align or keep my eye aligned with the Zeiss Conquest ...   I do have an additional question re parallax alignment in scopes and my ability to keep the sight picture straight/on target but I will start another discussion on this topic....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2008 at 08:40
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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the type of information on the vx3 can be put on any scope-- if you want to take the time and work it up, which requires something like the JBM ballistics calculator, some shooting and something to mark the scope ring.
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