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Nikon Buckmaster or Monarch with BDC

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 13:08
Stevesdl View Drop Down
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Hi All,

      First apologies if this has been covered in the past.  I must have gone through 4 hours of posts but did not necessarily see this specific topic.
 
I am in Colorado so the hunting shots can be 45 yards (accidental stumble upon) or 450 yards (the longest I will even consider taking). Just purchased a Vanguard 338 Winchester Magnum. Other than a possible Sightron II scope, I think I have narrowed it down to the two (son has the Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40 with BDC reticle but I want the next step or two up) and I am favoring Nikon for that BDC reason (not sure how much hype is in BDC though):
 
1. A lesser costing Nikon Buckmasters 4.5-14x40 SF with BDC reticle - about $199.00
2. Nikon Monarch 3-12x42 SF with with BDC reticle - about $370.00
 
If anyone has experience with either or both or believe the Sightron II's are better, please share your comments. At 54 my eyes are not like they used to be. I should be on a budget since I just got laid off but ya'll know the story about wanting a real "decent" thing or close to it.  :):)
 
Thank you very much
Stevesdl   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 13:24
jason miller View Drop Down
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Or you could buy the Team Primos with BDC here at SWFA for $199.99 with a free jacket.  It's the same glass as the discontinued 3-9x40 Monarch UCC, but rebadged for Team Primos.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 13:29
mlv2k5 View Drop Down
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Hi Steve,
Not sure how other people feel about them, but personally I have always been very skeptical of BDC reticles. They seem like they would be way too imprecise to make ethical hunting shots with unless they are specifically calibrated for the caliber and load you are using. If it's a shot inside of 200 you really don't need much holdover at all, and if it's out to say 400 you need a pretty precise hold to make the difference between a good heart/lung shot and a gut shot or clean miss. Perhaps other people will offer some other points of view, but for me I would stick with a more simple reticle unless you want to get a BDC that is calibrated for the specific drop of the round you plan on hunting with.

On a different note, I love the Nikon Monarchs. I have played with quite a few, and I own a monarch african. I can tell you that it is a nicely made scope, and it is very good to my eyes, I can see better with the 20mm objective of the Monarch than with the 40mm objective of my prostaff in low light conditions at equal powers. I think you have chosen a couple great scopes and arguably some of the best values available for performance vs price,  but I think I would stay away from the unnecessary BDC and get a plex reticle. If you really want a BDC I would look into one that is going to be a little more accurate. Such as the systems that Kahles and Swaro have put on some of their scopes...you may have to take out a second mortgage to afford one of those though because they are STEEP. 

You might also look into some of the Leupold stuff. Leupold has never been my favorite scope company, and I think in recent years their prices have inflated without an adequate reflection in the performance and quality of their optics. However, if you are willing to pay a little more I believe you have have them make you a BDC that matches exactly to the specific ballistics of your chosen caliber and load. You just provide them with the data unless I'm mistaken. 

Just one man's opinion, hopefully you will get some more responses that might help provide alternate points of view and get a good dialogue going.

Cheers,
Michael 


Edited by mlv2k5 - February/02/2010 at 13:31
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 13:38
Teddy Bear View Drop Down
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I agree with Jason.  You'll have excellent glass at a reasonable price as long as you can get by with a 3-9.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 13:49
jason miller View Drop Down
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And I'd be willing to bet that he'd probably get along just fine with a 3-9 at ranges under 450 on big game...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 14:04
AstroVic View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jason miller jason miller wrote:

Or you could buy the Team Primos with BDC here at SWFA for $199.99 with a free jacket.  It's the same glass as the discontinued 3-9x40 Monarch UCC, but rebadged for Team Primos.
 
Agreed 100%.  I've got three of the Nikon Team Primos 3-9x40 scopes...and I also have a Nikon ProStaff 3-9x40.  All of them have the BDC, which I think is a pretty decent setup.  Sure, the BDC isn't ultra-precise, but it serves as a pretty good reference, especially if you've spent some time seeing how it works for your particular setup.
 
It's hard to beat the Nikon Team Primos deal, particularly based on your stated needs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2010 at 20:38
pyro6999 View Drop Down
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ive used both scopes and im a bet skeptical about how they would hold up to a .338win mag, first off. if those are your last two choices, i would get the monarch just because your going to get better quality glass. do what i do with my bdc, ignore it. if i were putting a scope on a .338 win mag i would look at a zeiss conquest or a bushnell 4200 elite ( they have pretty short eye relief in the 3x9, but ive used mine on a .375H&H and now on a .300wby no issues) a leupold vx3 may be another choice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2010 at 19:36
Stevesdl View Drop Down
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I made the final decision today and am very happy with it.  I purchased the Team Primos 3-9x40mm with BDC. I purchased locally for $197.00. I wanted the scope mounted and ready for this weekend. (Yeah I missed out on the jacket)
 
Thank you to everyone's replys, comments, suggestions and discernents. Because of your experience and wisdom, I made the right choice for my circumstances. I have spent over 11-13 hours researching forumns, receiving forum answers, at least 2.5 hours test viewing scopes in-house and outdoors as well as consulting with experienced no-pressure sales techs at Sportsman Warehouse here in Colorado Springs and multiple phone calls to Joy and ED at Nikon Sporting Technical Support.    
 
Through all  of this, I did glean a few answers to thoughts and suggestions in some of the replys and thought I would post a few for future knowledge and enjoyment.
 
1. "It's the same glass as the discontinued 3-9x40 Monarch UCC, but rebadged for Team Primos."  According to Nikon, this is exactly true 100%. The same fully multi-coated lens used in the current Monarch scope models (aside from the 40mm instead of the 42mm size)
 
2. "skeptical of BDC reticles." (Namely Nikon's BDC) There is some truth and reasoning behind this. Aside from custom turrents, one might have to use the top of a circle or bottom or combination depending on caliber and ammunition. This will require some serious work and in the end still probably more of an assistance tool rather than a dead-on perfect tool. I am sure my 338 Winchester Magnum will not be the exception but that gives me a lot of fun time familiarizing, sighting in and good practice at the range. A friend has offered his club membership where 660 yd sighting is not only possible but the norm for the club members. (Not that I am really concered with anything over 400-450) For the current time I am using Federal 338 Win Mag 225 NAB. I might switch to Federal Fusion 225 or Federal 225 TTSX in the near futre but will be happy to re-calibrate according to that ammunition. (Who knows, I might not ever see anything past the 200yds which would be just fine with me since the 338 will be zero'd at that yardage.) :):)
 
3. "Monarch are a little costly." Yes they are but because of "YOU FANTASTIC FRIENDS", I found out how to have that Nikon Monarch quality optic for an incredibly significantly reduced cost and with the BDC.  :):) Everyone should pat themselves on the back for contributing, even if it was not necessarily favorable.  You still helped greatly.
 
4. "Bushnell, Burris, Zies and Leupold scopes." After reading hundreds, no thousands (well maybe not thousands of forum comments), I did find some comments comparing some of those models to the Monarchs.  Most often, many found the Monarchs to be the winner (Maybe by just a hair, but nevertheless still the winner - at least for clarity and brightness, which I was absolutely looking for after my experience with the previous Pentax scope) That is not to say those other scopes were not nice.  I was able to test view most all of ones mention at the store, and I came to the same conclusion with the exception of a few Burris and Leupold's that were in the $600+ range and a few Swarski's that were just incredbile but at $$2200.00 I would expect the scope to bugle, squeze the trigger, skin the animal and pack it out of the long hike back to camp. :):)
 
5. "Monarchs holding up to the 338 Winchester Mag recoil, time after time."   Nikon expressly stated that each scope is tested under 1000 G testing conditions. Yup there are 3 zero's after that 1.  They felt there would be no issue whatsoever with the 338 Win Mag recoil (of course there is always the possiblity of manufacturer defect - lets hope not) 
 
Bottom Line.  I will not know if I should do a standing ovation or cry in the corner till I take the rifle\scope out to the range this weekend. If anyone is interested I will write up an evaluation after the range testing. (Even then, targets against a big sand dune background is a heck of a lot different than the gray\brown hair of a Muley or Bull against a Fall forest background in Colorado.) :):)
 
Whatever the case, I will be as honest as possible so the next person might have some additional info to work with as well as your expert comments.
 
Thanks everyone again!!!
Steve
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2010 at 23:08
Teddy Bear View Drop Down
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Nice write up, hope everything works out for you
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