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Nightforce vs SS HD

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 12:29
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Nightforce 5.5-22x50 vs SS 5-20x50 HD

I am just looking for overall which would you rather have. Its going on a Savage 10 Precision carbine. I will say this I dont mind not having the zero stop because with the SS I dont know you could get lost with 10 mils per rev.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 14:23
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I ment don't know how you could get lost with 10 mils per rev.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 14:28
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One is FFP the other is SFP.  That alone would make me choose the SWFA model. 

Otherwise, both good scopes. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 16:34
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Glass is very similar in quality, if not slightly better in the SS HD.

The NF is almost the gold standard for durability and repeatability, the SS is fairly new but is enjoying a loyal following and seems to be holding up very well in terms of durability and repeatability.

NF's illumination system is among the very worst (in my opinion) and the SS illumination is quite good (though there is some reticle bleed, which I liked in mine.)  Changing intensity on the NF is a pain in the ass, on the SS, it is a breeze.

NF has many options in reticles, SS has only the one, for now.

NF NXS, the entire ocular turns when the power is changed, that always bugged me, the SS doesn't do that.

Parallax on both works as it should.

Eye box (ease to get behind and obtain clear sight picture) is roughly equal on the 2.

I have owned both, have shot both extensively, I really like both (other than the >20X part, but that is another post) so it comes down the personal preference.

When I wanted a 20X recently, I went with SS and not NF.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 16:49
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

One is FFP the other is SFP.  That alone would make me choose the SWFA model. 

Otherwise, both good scopes. 
 
 +1
 
NF has FFP models but I don't think their higher mag models have it yet.  Application dictates the and the choice is made Howdy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 17:38
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For that mag range I'd go with the SS. I like NF for ruggedness and repeatability, but don't think they're worth the premium over a comparable scope like this.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 18:39
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I have two of the SS 5-20x50 actually the NF really was not even a consideration for me If I was going to spend that much more I would have bought a U. S. Optics with the EREK.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 22:46
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

One is FFP the other is SFP.  That alone would make me choose the SWFA model. 

Otherwise, both good scopes. 


I guess I am different. That difference would make me choose the NF.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 10:34
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I like both but for different reasons.  The NF will cost you more but is the standard in durability and extreme use.   For anything over 12x power, I personally like a 56mm bell and the 34mm tube on some of the new highend Euro scopes.   It is all about light gathering.   The eye takes in light as a max factor of 7.  In other words take the bell size and divide by 7 to get the most available power that light can be gathered in.  Most manufactures argue that is a factor of 8x56 with a 30mm tube.  With a 50mm it is 7 (7*7=49).   So when you increase the magnification above a 7 power (with a 50mm belll) you start to loose light.  This is not really noticable during mid day but in low light conditions (sunrise and sundown) while hunting it makes a big difference.
 
Now that having been said you also need to factor in the bullistic differences of using a 56mm scope which usually requires extra high mounts.  You typically want a scope that is as low to the receiver as possible to get the flattest trajectory, especially over 500 yards.   For that reason I like the Leupold 4X15x 56 with the cut out on the bottom of the bell.
 
I think I am starting to ramble though so let me just vote on the NF.
 
j
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 10:37
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Oh I forgot.  The SS only has a 1" not 30mm tube so your light gathering is significantly less than the NF.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 10:38
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Originally posted by majog majog wrote:

Oh I forgot.  The SS only has a 1" not 30mm tube so your light gathering is significantly less than the NF.
 
 
No it doesn't.... and tube size has nothing to do with light gathering (no scopes gather light anyway).......WTH are you smoking?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 10:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 10:56
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I am with SVT.

It is a fact that fat tubes do not make for a brighter scope.

They do have more adjustment, though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 10:59
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Originally posted by majog majog wrote:

Oh I forgot.  The SS only has a 1" not 30mm tube so your light gathering is significantly less than the NF.
 
 
 
Whacko
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 11:01
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First Off SVT, there is no need to be rude.  Discussion boards should allow for a civilized debate of issues related to the interested parties.
 
That having been said, just the pure physics of the subject argue that the large the tube the more light,  water, or substance should be able to pass through it.  While there are hundreds of factors affecting light gathering this is just one of them.
 
Secondly in most scopes there is a second tube inside a scope- that's the tube that holds the reticle. The adjustment knobs on a scope touch that second, internal tube, and move the internal tube when you make adjustments. Therefore it's really the internal tube that limits in how much light is passed through to the eye piece from the bell. If the internal tube is larger in a 30mm scope than in a 1" scope, theoretically the 30mm could handle more light. If the scope maker uses the same size internal tube, there's no difference whatsoever in the scope body's ability to utilize light.
 
Another factor of the  30mm scope over a 1" scope, is that in many cases you actually gain more adjustment range with 30mm than the 1".  That is why most scopes designed from the ground up for 1000 yd plus shooting are 30 or 34mm tubes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 11:15
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Originally posted by majog majog wrote:

First Off SVT, there is no need to be rude.  Discussion boards should allow for a civilized debate of issues related to the interested parties.
 
That having been said, just the pure physics of the subject argue that the large the tube the more light,  water, or substance should be able to pass through it.  While there are hundreds of factors affecting light gathering this is just one of them.
 
Secondly in most scopes there is a second tube inside a scope- that's the tube that holds the reticle. The adjustment knobs on a scope touch that second, internal tube, and move the internal tube when you make adjustments. Therefore it's really the internal tube that limits in how much light is passed through to the eye piece from the bell. If the internal tube is larger in a 30mm scope than in a 1" scope, theoretically the 30mm could handle more light. If the scope maker uses the same size internal tube, there's no difference whatsoever in the scope body's ability to utilize light.
 
Another factor of the  30mm scope over a 1" scope, is that in many cases you actually gain more adjustment range with 30mm than the 1".  That is why most scopes designed from the ground up for 1000 yd plus shooting are 30 or 34mm tubes.
It is true you do gain more adjustment but a larger tube does not give you better light transmission. The light travels through that smaller tube that you mentioned not the larger tube to begin with and the human pupil can only dialate to 7mm at its prime, so anything over that is not going to be taken in by your eye anyways. The size of the objetive in Millimeters divided by the power gives you your exit pupil. IE: A 3-10x50 set on the magnification of 10 power gives an exit pupil of 5mm whether the scope is 1", 30mm, or 34mm. The tube diameter does not effect light transmission of the scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 11:19
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Dude, quit while you're ahead!

First and foremost, no tube "gathers" light.

Next, light and water and other stuff ain't traveling through an empty tube.  In theory, yes, an unobstructed tube would allow more stuff to flow through; however, scopes aren't unobstructed tubes.

Your entire post seems to revolve around this statement:  "If the internal tube is larger in a 30mm scope than in a 1" scope..."

It is an "if...then" where the "if" is false.

Your assertion that 30mm tubes typically have more travel is correct.

People here aren't being rude, they are being protective.  You made a patently false statement and were corrected.  It ain't personal.

There are many, many very knowledgeable individuals posting here.  If you wish to post theory, please identify it as such.

Many here have real-world experience with the scopes in question, rather than theoretical assumptions.

Carry on.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 11:19
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Originally posted by majog majog wrote:

First Off SVT, there is no need to be rude.  Discussion boards should allow for a civilized debate of issues related to the interested parties.
 
 
i was rude because you mis spoke and said the ss had a 1" tube, had you done 2 seconds worth of looking you'd known that.  That also shows you dont' know anything about SS scopes, all current models are 30mm, which this thread is about.  You may know about NF if you use them but you don't need to base your opinion on the two if you haven't compared the two side by side which obviously you haven't.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 12:14
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I thought the response was very warranted from SVT. By the way the choice has been made the SS 5-20 is the choice!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 12:19
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You will enjoy it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 12:25
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This probably the first time I have been disappointed in some of the responses. Yes majog was incorrect, but all one had to do was post that he was incorrect and that SS scopes are 30mm. We have all made mistakes and I am sure no one would like to be corrected in such an aggressive manor.

Also some food for thought. According to Chris Farris's comment in this post all other things being equal a 30mm can be brighter than a 1 inch.

http://www.opticstalk.com/topic1616&KW=30.html
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 12:32
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

This probably the first time I have been disappointed in some of the responses. Yes majog was incorrect, but all one had to do was post that he was incorrect and that SS scopes are 30mm. We have all made mistakes and I am sure no one would like to be corrected in such an aggressive manor.

Also some food for thought. According to Chris Farris's comment in this post all other things being equal a 30mm can be brighter than a 1 inch.

http://www.opticstalk.com/topic1616&KW=30.html
You can be disappointed.  But lets think for a minute someone who doesn't have the know runs by this thread ands see's the post and then denotes oh, it has a 1" tube, i'll go with something else before reading the rest.  Misinformation can harm more than people think, making people aware that some of us do not tolerate this hopefully will keep people from mis speaking.  I'd expect everyone to do me the same way if i posted such, and they have in the past.  The fact that your disappointed is your own right.  I won't loose sleep over it.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 12:36
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

This probably the first time I have been disappointed in some of the responses. Yes majog was incorrect, but all one had to do was post that he was incorrect and that SS scopes are 30mm. We have all made mistakes and I am sure no one would like to be corrected in such an aggressive manor.

Also some food for thought. According to Chris Farris's comment in this post all other things being equal a 30mm can be brighter than a 1 inch.

http://www.opticstalk.com/topic1616&KW=30.html
You can be disappointed.  But lets think for a minute someone who doesn't have the know runs by this thread ands see's the post and then denotes oh, it has a 1" tube, i'll go with something else before reading the rest.  Misinformation can harm more than people think, making people aware that some of us do not tolerate this hopefully will keep people from mis speaking.  I'd expect everyone to do me the same way if i posted such, and they have in the past.  The fact that your disappointed is your own right.  I won't loose sleep over it.
 


That is why I said to correct the error.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 12:48
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:



Also some food for thought. According to Chris Farris's comment in this post all other things being equal a 30mm can be brighter than a 1 inch.

http://www.opticstalk.com/topic1616&KW=30.html




Actually I think Chris misspoke in that post (it was a long time ago). If the erector assembly is stopping down the light (regardless of the lens diameter in the assembly), the scope was not designed properly. The result would be the objective would not be used fully. That is my understanding anyway.

Perhaps ILya could clear this up, as he has done so many times before on this subject.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 13:16
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O boy.. Scopes can collect light, in the passive sense just as a tub collects rain, evidenced by and increase in temperature. Image is inverted several times thus not dependent on linear transmission (collection)
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