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Night coyote scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2009 at 22:49
jjyoung View Drop Down
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I am trying to chose between the zeiss conquest 3-9x40 and conquest 3-9x50. The scope will be mounted to a AR-15 M4 profile rifle chambered in 5.56. This setup is primarily used for night time coyote hunting in winter when snowing and with snow on the ground.  Shots are usually 5 to 100 yards and I often walk 3-8 miles in a night so weight and bulk do matter.  I noticed the conquest 3-9x40 is longer than the 3-9x50 and not much lighter.  So which one to buy?  Doing the math,  the 50mm objective will be brighter at only one higher power. I currently have a burris fullfield 2 4.5-14x42 on the gun and never turn the power higher than 4.5 at night. Suggestions welcome. thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2009 at 23:42
JF4545 View Drop Down
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I have a AR Bushmaster Predator, 20" Med. Heavy Barrel and I mounted a LaRue M4 Scope Mount with a 3x9x42 Kahles with TDS Ballistic Reticle on it.. I love this set-up for Coyotes, Plinkin and I could even use it for Deer if I wanted to. If I had a 50mm Objective I would be afraid it would make the rifle unbalanced (top heavy) This is just what I suspect, but Im quite happy with the way its set up. I also own a 3.5x10x44 Zeiss but I put it on another rifle as its heavier than the 3x9x42..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 06:31
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On a Flattop AR15, the scope has to mounted high enough to get a cheekweld, and either size objective will clear the handguard when mounted in extra-high rings, so objective size becomes somewhat irrelevant on that platform as far as mounting issues are concerned...
 I'd get the 50mm one if price is close. You've got good glass in either scope, and will probably do some low-light work, so why not take advantage of the (admittedly small) gain in low-light performance of the 50 mm?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 08:17
puppezed View Drop Down
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Originally posted by jjyoung jjyoung wrote:

Doing the math,  the 50mm objective will be brighter at only one higher power.
How did you calculate this?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 08:24
ccoker View Drop Down
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what about a trijicon 3-9x40?
light, great glass, ill ret
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 15:04
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I think ccoker is right the trijicon 3x9x40 would be great for what you need, better then my kahles would be at night. If you do not mind a large objective then perhaps kick it up a notch to a 2.5x10x56 Trijicon, now this is one light gathering scope , Ive looked at them closely and the optics are great ...Just a thought....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2009 at 19:25
jjyoung View Drop Down
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Trijicon looks good but not sure I can swing the finances right now.  Looks like $500 is my limit right now
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 01:38
puppezed View Drop Down
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Some rumours say that lenses for Zeiss Conquest scopes come from Meopta. This is not a bad thing if the lenses are covered similarly to Meopta scopes since they perform well in low light situations. I´d take the Conquest with larger objective.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 16:42
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10829 Trijicon 2x20 Compact Acog TA47-4, Matte finish, Amber cross hair reticle, with carry handle adapter, BAC Thunbs Up  $599.95
11129 Trijicon 1.25-4x24 Accu-Point TR21, Matte finish, Amber Triangle reticle, 1" tube, fast focus eye piece, ring marks $795.00 $499.95
11003 Trijicon 1.25-4x24 Accu-Point TR21, Matte finish, Amber Triangle reticle, 1" tube, fast focus eye piece, ring marks $795.00 $499.95
10870 Trijicon 1.25-4x24 Accu-Point TR21, Matte finish, Red Triangle reticle, 1" tube, fast focus eye piece, includes Leupold med QRW rings and a riser mount (unknown maker) $895.00 $599.95
10816 Trijicon 3-9x40 Accu-Point 10816, Matte finish, Amber Triangle reticle, fast focus eye piece, light ring marks $795.00 $499.95
10640 Trijicon 3x24 Compact Acog TA50R4, Matte finish, Red Crosshair reticle, BAC, in store display model Thunbs Up  $599.95
I think I already got the Compact ACOG 3x unless they have a second one but if you are hunting at night you need illumination more than power.  I have a 1.5x and a 3x and both will shoot sub moa. The 2x above would be a really good choice for you.  The 2x has more eye relief than the 3x but both have more useable eye relief than is advertised.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/04/2009 at 16:50
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Originally posted by puppezed puppezed wrote:

Some rumours say that lenses for Zeiss Conquest scopes come from Meopta. This is not a bad thing if the lenses are covered similarly to Meopta scopes since they perform well in low light situations. I´d take the Conquest with larger objective.


Zeiss Conquest lenses come from Meopta.  But not the Victory line.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/05/2009 at 23:31
jjyoung View Drop Down
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I see alot of talk about the Bushnell elite 4200 3-9x40.  I'm wondering if the elite is noticeably brighter than lets say the burris fullfield 2 that I'm currently using.  Also, is there a big difference in brightness between the elite and the conquest/trijicon on lower powers? By the way, I only had one instance where I missed a coyote because I couldn't see good enough through the burris scope.  I don't think I ever had a problem seeing the balistic plex reticle at night either. Are the other reticles that much easier to see? thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/06/2009 at 02:00
puppezed View Drop Down
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How did you do the math? Did you divide objective size with magnification to get the diameter of exit pupil? Even though this is the formula how light power is calculated, it does not fit into my intuition. The formula would mean that a 1.5x20 scope would have equal or better light power than say 8x56. My intuition says that you would see better in the dark with 8x56 scope.

The reason why some scopes are better in dusk than others is mostly because of the quality of lenses. For example some European manufacters pay attention to how the scopes pass blue light. Even though a scope might have 95% light transmission value, it tells nothing how the scope performs in the dark and how it passes blue light. I´ve personally tried my Swarovski Z6i 1-6x24 and Japanese Shirstone 1.5-6x42 side by side. Swarovski was way better even though it had much smaller objective size.

Usually european dusk scopes have had reticles with very thick edges. That kind of reticle unfortunately covers more of the target. Illuminated reticle would solve the reticle visibility problem but only if you can adjust the brightness low enough.

Few low light scope reviews:
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=19859
http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11981
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/07/2009 at 19:01
jjyoung View Drop Down
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I know you can not compare two different scope manufactures because glass quality and coatings are not the same.  Also I know comparing objective sizes with two different brand scopes is pointless.  But, if you have two scopes made by the same manufacture, using the same glass and the same coatings etc. the larger objective lens should be brighter only at the higher power calculated by the exit pupil.  At least this is what I have read on these forums.  Is this wrong to think or is your intuition correct?  I would like to know.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2009 at 07:48
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Ultimate night hunting scope is still the Trijicon 2.5-10x56 green dot/crosshair !!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2009 at 11:19
ccoker View Drop Down
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I am contemplating selling my Khales CL3-10x50 for one for my 308
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