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Newer may not be better

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2007 at 17:40
Brokenear View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: June/14/2006
Location: United States
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Points: 9

 

I have been using as old Bushnell Spacemaster II for years and I thought it was time to upgrade. I got a killer deal on a new 15-45X Elite thinking it would be a improvement. What a dissapointment. The eyepiece is much smaller (exit pupil?) and I have a problem with the fuzzies at any power over 20X. The field of view is much smaller. Probably 30% smaller at 20X. The resolution is no better even with the newer fancy-shmancy coatings.

 

I guess I'll keep the old scope and the new one goes off to eBay. DANG!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/15/2007 at 22:34
1stscope View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Optics is kind of a hobby, I like looking at different types of equipment and enjoy looking at older stuff too. I've been surprised by how good some of the older stuff is, in spite of better coatings and designs on some of the newer products. I've assumed it was due to good manufacturing, with an attempt to make the products to design goals instead of just 'in tolerance', good polishing, and the willingness to actually make sure that a product performed as expected instead of as hoped for.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/05/2007 at 01:59
zeissoem2 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: March/18/2007
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[QUOTE=1stscope]Optics is kind of a hobby, I like looking at different types of equipment and enjoy looking at older stuff too. I've been surprised by how good some of the older stuff is, in spite of better coatings and designs on some of the newer products. I've assumed it was due to good manufacturing, with an attempt to make the products to design goals instead of just 'in tolerance', good polishing, and the willingness to actually make sure that a product performed as expected instead of as hoped for. [/QUOTE

 

Its well known that older optics do have bether polished prism and lenses

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/06/2007 at 11:17
Spitzer View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: March/04/2007
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Originally posted by Brokenear Brokenear wrote:

 

I have been using as old Bushnell Spacemaster II for years and I thought it was time to upgrade. I got a killer deal on a new 15-45X Elite thinking it would be a improvement. What a dissapointment. The eyepiece is much smaller (exit pupil?) and I have a problem with the fuzzies at any power over 20X. The field of view is much smaller. Probably 30% smaller at 20X. The resolution is no better even with the newer fancy-shmancy coatings.

 

 

 

 

That's way different then my obsevations. My hunting partner has a Bushnell Spacemaster 15-45x60 and my B&L elite 15-45x60 is quite noticebly better. We contastly fight over mine when animals are spotted, especially in low light. My Elite is brighter, sharper and has better eye relief. The only thing I do like about the Spacemaster is the porro design which gives more "depth" to the image.

 

 

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2007 at 11:10
lucznik View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master


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Originally posted by Spitzer Spitzer wrote:

 The only thing I do like about the Spacemaster is the porro design which gives more "depth" to the image.

 

 

Although I agree with your assessment of the Elite being superior to the Spacemaster, this particular statement is not possible. 

 

The increased depth of field offered by porro prism binoculars is due, not just to the "dog-leg" design of the optical barrel but also to the fact that there are two of them - one for each eye.  It is the wider distance between each of the two optical barrels in the porro prism binocular that creates their depth-of-field advantage over roof prism binoculars - not the dog-leg design in and of itself.  In fact, this advantage is completely lost with the reverse-porro compact binoculars because their design brings the objective lenses even closer together than standard roof prisms thus further deteriorating that nice 3-D effect.

 

Spotting scopes, because they involve the use of only one eye, do not offer "depth" at all - regardless of their design. 

 

A porro prism spotter will still offer optical advantages over comparable roof prism models (for example reductions in Chromatic Abberation) due to their more simplified design but, increased depth of field is not one of them.



Edited by lucznik
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2007 at 15:13
Spitzer View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: March/04/2007
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Originally posted by lucznik lucznik wrote:

Originally posted by Spitzer Spitzer wrote:

 The only thing I do like about the Spacemaster is the porro design which gives more "depth" to the image.

 

 

Although I agree with your assessment of the Elite being superior to the Spacemaster, this particular statement is not possible. 

 

The increased depth of field offered by porro prism binoculars is due, not just to the "dog-leg" design of the optical barrel but also to the fact that there are two of them - one for each eye.  It is the wider distance between each of the two optical barrels in the porro prism binocular that creates their depth-of-field advantage over roof prism binoculars - not the dog-leg design in and of itself.  In fact, this advantage is completely lost with the reverse-porro compact binoculars because their design brings the objective lenses even closer together than standard roof prisms thus further deteriorating that nice 3-D effect.

 

 

 

 

 

Spotting scopes, because they involve the use of only one eye, do not offer "depth" at all - regardless of their design. 

 

A porro prism spotter will still offer optical advantages over comparable roof prism models (for example reductions in Chromatic Abberation) due to their more simplified design but, increased depth of field is not one of them.

 

I realized my porro binoculars offered more depth than my roof's because of the porro design, I just remembered that the spacemaster seemed to have a little more depth to the image than my Elite when looking at critters. I thought it was due to the off set design but I guess not. Next time I'm out I'll have to compare again to make sure, maybe I'm seeing things.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2007 at 22:01
Brokenear View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: June/14/2006
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[/QUOTE]

 

 

That's way different then my obsevations. My hunting partner has a Bushnell Spacemaster 15-45x60 and my B&L elite 15-45x60 is quite noticebly better. We contastly fight over mine when animals are spotted, especially in low light. My Elite is brighter, sharper and has better eye relief. The only thing I do like about the Spacemaster is the porro design which gives more "depth" to the image.

 

 

 

 

[/QUOTE]

 

I have done some more side by side comparisons and I still think the Spacemaster has some advantages. One thing I forgot to mention is that the Spacemaster has a fixed 20X eyepiece, so maybe Iím comparing Delicious apples with Granny Smiths.

 

I donít doubt that the new scope with its advanced coating would probably be better in subdued light, but I disagree that the eye relief is greater on the Elite. To get a full image with the Elite,  I have to almost have my eye ball against the eyepiece.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/07/2007 at 22:52
Spitzer View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: March/04/2007
Location: Canada
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Points: 12
Originally posted by Brokenear Brokenear wrote:

I have done some more side by side comparisons and I still think the Spacemaster has some advantages. One thing I forgot to mention is that the Spacemaster has a fixed 20X eyepiece, so maybe Iím comparing Delicious apples with Granny Smiths.

 

I donít doubt that the new scope with its advanced coating would probably be better in subdued light, but I disagree that the eye relief is greater on the Elite. To get a full image with the Elite,  I have to almost have my eye ball against the eyepiece.

 

 

 

What magnification do you have the Elite set on?

 

 

 

 

.



Edited by Spitzer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/09/2007 at 02:45
Brokenear View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: June/14/2006
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"What magnification do you have the Elite set on?"

 

It really doesn't matter. At 15X it has about the same eye relief as the 20X Spacemaster. As the magnifiction is increased, the eye relief seems to decrease to the point where it is uncomfortable.

 

Usually, I take my glasses off when I use binoculars or spotting scopes. There is no way I could use the Elite with my glasses.

 

Let me say that if the Elite was my only scope, I would probably like it, but since I have something else to compare it to, I find it somewhat lacking.

 

 

 

 

.



Edited by Brokenear
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