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new to scopes..help

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2008 at 18:35
csx2006 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: November/18/2008
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Ok so a few weeks back i bought a new dpms ar 15 and i really like shooting it but it had iron sights so i started looking at scopes. the more i looked the more videos and stuff i found with guys shooting out to over 1000 yrds with a .308 and this crazy scope language they were speaking..lol. MOA, windage, elevation and how did they know the distance to target without a range finder? Well i was hooked and for a few days now ive been reading all i can about it. I now can calculate yardage with mil dot retical[didnt even know what that was yesterday] but im not very good at it yet. But i do have a few question and you guys seem to know your stuff so i regitered and here i am to LEARN LEARN LEARN. OK SO MY FIRST QUESTION IS
 
1. ive noticed on range cards they only go in like 25 or 50 yrd increments...why?...if i have say 677 yrds to a target there isnt a 677 yardage on the card ..why?
 
2. Once i get a yardage to a certain target is there anything that will tell me how many ''clicks'' of the elevation knob i need to reach said target?
 
like i said im completly new but also totaly hooked can you guys tell me where i can learn more? any other tips would be appreciated too...thx in advance
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2008 at 18:38
csx2006 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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also are there any books,web sites or literature that i can read that will walk me through and teach me everything about it?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2008 at 19:03
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
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OK, if I was totally new, and trying to learn to use mil dots I would start with one of these.
 
 
The ballistic tables you have been looking at are kind of cookie cutter so to speak. Most don't have 677 yards on them, because a table would be huge, and cluttered if you had every yardage on there. If you had a table with every 25 yards just shoot for 675 yards at the 677 yard target. Close enough. Most tables won't tell you how many clicks to come up, but you can convert that to moa to figure it out. MOA is minute of angle, or 1/60 of one degree. What this comes out to is basically 1" at 100 yards, 2" at 200 3" at 300 and so on. How many clicks depends on how big the clicks are on your scope. Most are 1/4 moa, but some are 1/8. To give you an example though. If you are zeroed for 100 yards, and are shooting to 300 say your ballistic table says bullet will drop 10.5 inches, you convert this to moa and come up about 3.5 moa. With a 1/4 moa scope that would be 14 clicks. Hornady.com has a pretty fair ballistic calculator on their site that will give you the energy, trajectory, come ups in moa, and wind drift for your bullet. There are several others, but this one is simple and should get you started. I would say play with some ballistic calculators to get an idea of how this works, look into a mil dot master, then start compiling your own data from your rifle, and make your own range card. I hope I have helped you.
 
 EDIT:
 
Welcome to the OT, we are glad to have you.


Edited by trigger29 - November/18/2008 at 19:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2008 at 22:15
csx2006 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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thx for the reply trigger. ya you helped but like i said im very new to all this[just a few days]. some of what you said makes sence but others im still lost..lol.
 
ok so is there somewhere on the net i can download a card with 25 yard increments on it?..also if i come up with say 613 on that chart. would i just make a good guess based on what 600 and 625 says? and if so thats not very accurate right?
 
convert MOA for clicks. ya im still lost on that and the whole ballistic chart thing. dont really understand how all that fits into the mix. can you explain or is there someplace i can read up on how it works?
 
ordered the mil dot master imediatly..lol... how can i make my own range card
 
dont really understand wind drift either or ''lead'' im sure different grain bullets drift different correct? it seems[from what little i know so far] that for it to be exact one would need alot of charts or fast with a calculator... am i correct on this?
 
another thing... when reading the retical itself. that cant be to exact either or from what i can tell. or does it just get to a point where youve done it so much you can tell if its say 1.6 mils or 1.2 seems its hard for me to just guess at it......I.E. 1.2 or 1.3
 
just so much to learn and i dont know where to start. but im determined to learn all i can about it. thx for the help
looking for ward to the reply. thx again
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/18/2008 at 23:56
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Ok, I'll start with converting moa to clicks. Same situation. Zeroed for 100, shooting for 300 drop in this case we'll say is 12" at 300 yards 12" is 4 MOA. As I stated before 1 MOA equates out to about 1" at 100 yards (actually 1.0471996, but shooter usually use 1"), 2" at 200 and so on. So if the bullet drops 12" at 300 divide number of inches of drop (12) by hundreds of yards (3) to get 4 moa of drop. If your scope is 1/4 moa clicks, then you need 4 clicks to get 1 moa, so 4x4=16 clicks for 4 moa. Hope this clears it up a bit. It's not really that complicated once you figure it out and start using it. As far as wind drift, yes different loads will drift more or less depending on a couple of factors. I don't know if you have heard the term "ballistic coefficent" but that is a number that represents how aerodynamic a bullet is. A bullet with a high b.c. will maintain velocity better than a lower b.c. due to less wind resistance. Velocity directly relates to wind drift also, as the faster bullet has less time for the wind to push it off course. This is also true for leading moving targets. If you want to shoot the longer ranges, you will want to know the b.c of your bullet, and how fast it's coming out. Having a ballistic table for each load is the only way it will be accurate. The other option is to get a hand held pda, and put a ballistic calculator program on it. Then you can punch in your b.c. for the load you are using that day, and velocity, and it will spit out a table. I just print one for every load I shoot. As far as if you come up with 613 yards, I would just guess based on what 600 and 625 were. Not exact, but with wind and natural movement, it's hard to be extremely precise at that range. Moa will have it's own effects at that range. Example, if your rifle shoots a 3 shot group at 100 yards that covers 1" then at best it will shoot a 6" group at 600 yards. I wouldn't get to worried about finding drop for 613 I would take 600 maybe plus a click or two depending on how fast my bullet is dropping, and call it close enough. As far as reading your reticle, I'm not the best person to advise you on this, because I use a different reticle type based on moa. I will tell you that it gets easier with time, and you will get better at reading it, but you will not ever get an accurate to the yard measurement like with a laser rangefinder. Some guys are very good with them, but I've never seen anyone who can perfectly tell the range every time, but they get close enough to hit what they are shooting at. As far as a ballistic table for every 25 yards, type "norma ammunition" in to google, and their site has a calculator that goes to 600 yards, and you can go 1 yard at a time if you want. Just write down the ranges you want, and the drop in inches, and convert to moa or clicks. Or you can make your own by shooting at the distances. By using the same aiming point, you will see how much the bullet drops at each range, and make your own table. This would be the most accurate table, because it is data four YOUR rifle.  I hope I answered all your questions. I can tell you that once you get started on this, you will be hooked. Hitting a 10" gong at about 800 yards, and watching the guy next to you fall over in shock is fun.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2008 at 01:28
pell1203 View Drop Down
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csx2006,
 
Take a look at the following site. It has range and trajectory card calculators that let you play with a lot of what ifs to learn more about bullet trajectories and other external ballistics:
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/19/2008 at 03:08
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4288

You may want to check out shooterready.com. There is a lot of information here about mil dots, and they have a demo of their software where you can practice using mil dots and dialing in ranges.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/21/2008 at 15:50
csx2006 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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Joined: November/18/2008
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thx for the help fellas. Ya trigger when you spell it out like that its not hard at all. thx alot

Been researching alot and i think i have the basics of everything. Now for a rifle and scope combo. http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_SPS_varmint.asp
 
This is the rifle iv'e gone with. Now for a scope on it. Think you guys can help me chose a scope? Really dont wanna spend alot if i dont have to maybe around 300 or so. I do want quality. I'm sure ill need quality rings and a mount to so if you guys can help on that as well it would be great. Maybe post some links or something of what you guys would put on it.
 
thx again for the help
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