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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 01:02
scudder View Drop Down
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I'm looking into buying a Remington 700 SPS .270 for target shooting (mostly around 100 yds), and wanted to know what scope I should be thinking about putting on it. I've been looking mostly at Leupold scopes, but what I'm wondering is how much scope do I really need?

Obviously I don't need to drop $900 on a competition grade scope (maybe somday, when my shooting warrants it ), but should I even be worrying about parallax?

I don't want to over-spend on features I wouldn't miss at 100 yds. Also, variable magnification or fixed? Like I said, I'll be doing most of my shooting at one distance, but how much "wiggle room" is there (if any) to go shorter or longer?

Any brand/model suggestions would be appreciated as well. I'm only concentrating on Leupold at the moment because the one rifle with a scope that I shot when I was a kid had a Leupold on it, and I remember my dad telling me they made really good scopes. I know Zeiss and a few others are top of the line as well, so any input would be appreciated.

A lot of questions, I know, but thanks in advance for any input.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 01:12
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If you want itty bitty groups, parallax adjustment is pretty important, especially if you use reasonably high magnificaiton.  If you are only doing target shooting, fixed magnification is fine, but it really does not make much difference in your case.

How much are you willing to spend?  There are good scopes at a number of different price points, so you should probably set a price limit of what you can comfortably spend and see what is available.

Leupold makes good scopes, but they are overpriced by a fair margin, so if you are trying to get the most for your money, Leupold is not the way to go.  There are a lot of companies out there that make excellent products at more reasonable prices.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 01:45
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I'm probably looking to spend 300-400 dollars. I wondered if the extra price on Leupold was worth it, thanks for the info. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 03:24
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Originally posted by scudder scudder wrote:

I'm probably looking to spend 300-400 dollars. I wondered if the extra price on Leupold was worth it, thanks for the info. 

 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-4304-231-super-sniper-10x42-30mm-rifl e-scope.aspx

 

The SS is great for the beginner and the pro alike. I love mine!!

 

Oh, and as always.............Welcome to the OT!!

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 07:00
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Scudder,

 

Curious as to why you are going with .270 for 100 yd Target shooting?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 09:59
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Well, I'm keeping my options open as far as possibly hunting game with it as well. I figured the .270 is heavy enough for game but light enough that I won't kill my shoulder after a day on the range.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 10:09
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The 270 is a great hunting cartridge but I would probably go with a .308 to take advantage of the highly available surplus ammo or god forbid .223 as it is very reasonably priced it just is ineffective on live targets over about 17 lbs in size.  I second the motion for a 10x 42 Super Sniper scope and I like the side focus model but use rear focus if you are a lefty.  I think the question is will you use the rifle for anything buy paper if so that makes a huge difference in what we might suggest. Do you have a spotting scope if you dont you may want a higher power scope. I believe there are a couple of nice Nikon variables with target knobs on sale:

 

Inventory reduction on two 100% new in box Nikon Monarch 6.5-20x44 riflescopes with full lifetime warranty.

 

While supplies last!

 

Nikon Monarch 6.5-20x44 Adjustable Objective, Matte Finish, Illuminated Niko-Plex Reticle

6602.....$439.95 (regularly $629.95, you save $190.)

 

Nikon Monarch 6.5-20x44 Adjustable Objective, Matte Finish, Illuminated Mil-Dot Reticle

6605.....$449.95 (regularly $629.95, you save $180.)

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 10:18
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When it comes down to it, I'd rather have a target gun that's cheaper to shoot than a target/hunting gun that's going to cost more to shoot. I'd say there's realistically about a 10% chance I'll hunt game with this gun, though the .308 option sounds good. Thanks for the scope reccomendations, I'll add them to the list. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 11:55
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I have to agree with the above comments and look real hard at a .308.  The .270 is a great hunting cartridge, however, as a range round I'd go with a .308 or .223.  If you plan on possibly using it for hunting, then the .308 does double duty as a fine range and hunting round.

 

As far as scopes, Im not a target shooter so I won't pretend to give advice in that area.  However, you did mention Leupold as an option. Again, I am only familuar with hunting scopes but general belief and mine included is that Leupold is a fine scope just over priced for what you get.  What you do get with Leupold is a great warranty...they are known for taking care of a product if something goes wrong and usually its done in a manner where the customer is almost always statisfied.  That and bragging rights, since there are still a great many fans of their scopes.  Optics wise,  there are offerings from companies such as Burris, Nikon, Weaver, Pentax, Bushnell (Elites) and Sightron who provide just as good and in some cases better performance at the same or lower in cost.  Of course, the die hard golden band boys may say otherwise, but the proof is in the optics not just the name.

 

happy shooting

AC

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 12:00
Tip69 View Drop Down
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From what I'm reading...... doesn't sound like a .270 would be your best choice.  I say this for several reasons.  As Urimaginaryfrnd stated, the 270 is an great "hunting" cartridge, but it doesn't have that same reputation 

when it comes to target shooting.  It's not very flexible as far as different bullet weights because it usually takes different rifle twists (this has given it a bad rep. when it comes to accuracy) for lighter bullets compared to heavier ones.  There are other rounds that are better suited to target shooting..... easier to hand load......cheaper

........more flexible.  That sort of thing.  And you can find ones with less recoil as well. 

 

If you have your heart set on a .270, then by all means get it..... but if you're still undecided.... might want to check out some other ones.

 

For the scope....... if you are just going to use on 100 yd range...... I would go with a fixed one.  You usually can get higher quality for same money compared to variable one.  You might have to buy a spotting scope to be able to see your holes though.

 

That's my 2 cents.   

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 12:19
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Thanks all for the input, and that brings me to another question. Is there a signifcant recoil difference between a .308 and a .270 cartridge? I assume .223 would be significatly less than the other two, but I've never shot .308 or .270 so I don't know how they feel.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 12:50
Tip69 View Drop Down
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You are right about the .223... you can shoot that all day and all nite....... its fun to shoot.  I have only shot a .308 in a Browning Semi-Auto (BAR) and it's not bad.  Never shot a .270.  I think it depends on how they are loaded, but will leave it to the more experienced to weigh in on that one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 18:14
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Originally posted by scudder scudder wrote:

Thanks all for the input, and that brings me to another question. Is there a signifcant recoil difference between a .308 and a .270 cartridge? I assume .223 would be significatly less than the other two, but I've never shot .308 or .270 so I don't know how they feel.   

A 270 has quite a bit of recoil and muzzle blast.

You're burning alot of powder there.

.308 and it's derivatives are considered the most efficient cartridges in the medium bores.

IE you get alot of performance for the recoil and blast.

308 cartridge is available everywhere and alot of milsurp can be had by bulk.

If you do want to hunt with it, there's hunting cartridges that will get things dead out past 300 yds.

308 is universally considered more accurate than 270.

Alot of good rifles available.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 18:38
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Ok,  there is target shooting and then there is plinking.  Think of it this way there is playing poker for matches and then there playing poker for money.  Which ever you wish to do is fine with me.  If you want to play for money then there are match rules.  Most matches have rules stating the need for iron sights.  Check with the DCM

 

Most short course matches favor the .223.  For real match use you get the best bullet selection in .224 or .308 dia. This also works to keep your cost down.

 

Few people make a real target scopes.   Leapuold does make good target scope.  They are target scopes because they have extra heavy duty knobs, but the same mediocure glass.  YMMV and good luck

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 21:29
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First of all, depending on the bullet weight and equal gun weight, the recoil of a 270 and 308 are almost identical.  Secondly, the 308 is not inherently more accurate than the 270, depending on what weight bullet is used and the BC.  Check any ballistics calculator.  308, earns its reputation, due to the fact that bench rest shooters use it more because the ammo is readily available and everbody shoots it.  The top shooters shot it and therefore they win with it.  If the top shooters were all give Wby 30-378s, they would all win with those, as it truly has more range and TOF to target is much faster.  To take the extreme case, a laser would reach the target instanstaneously and would be dead on everytime, so the shooters using this would always win.  But, it comes back to the statistical fact, that when the most shooters shot one caliber at that particular level of competition, that caliber wins.  The 270 would be fine as a hunting rifle and is a flat shooting  caliber with good penetrating bullets with good BCs.  Remember, when hunting, you do not shot a whole slew of shells.  Last year, 3 shots from a Howa 300 winmag, 3 deer.  Thats it.  Plus 5 cartridges to sight the rifle.  Good luck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2006 at 23:51
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Thanks again for all the help, I really do appreciate it! One more newbie question, just for good measure: It looks like .308 is the way to go, so what brand of ammo should I be using, and does it matter all that much at 100 yards? I'm sure I'll buy some of the fancy "competition" grade ammo once in a while just to play with it, but if hunting for scopes and rifles has taught me anything, it's that quality is often overstated. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2006 at 05:39
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Looks like like you have changed your mind based on very biased information.  While it is very true, surplus 308 ammo is dirt cheap for target shooting, I can gaurantee that after awhile, shooting at 100 yards is going to get boring.  Any reasonable premium ammo should do fine and you have to find the bullet weight that really mates with your rifle for the best groupings.  But, by doing this, you have completed obviated the purpose for buying the 270, which, I think as a hunting rifle on North American deer is the equal, not a better rifle.  Think about it before you make your purchase.  If you intend on using alot of surplus ammo at dirt cheap prices, no question, go with the 308, if not, I would go with the 270.  Good luck.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2006 at 07:00
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Dolphin....... not sure why you think we have given "bias" info!  We are just sharing some thoughts that we have learned over the years.  The only reason I brought it up is because Scudder said he wanted a scope for a gun he was going to use on "targets".  The .270 is a great round for hunting deer, pronghorns and coyotes.  Flat shooting with good knock down, but you really only have a couple options for bullet weights...130 & 150.  From what I've read, the .270 needs different rates of twist for bullets less than 130 grns.  This just means you have less choices.  But for "target" shooting... why limit your choices?  If it were me (now I'm being bias) I would go with something with a lot less recoil..... because shooting targets is NOT like shooting at game and after a few shots, I get recoil sensative! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2006 at 07:23
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Originally posted by Tip69 Tip69 wrote:

Dolphin....... not sure why you think we have given "bias" info!  We are just sharing some thoughts that we have learned over the years.  The only reason I brought it up is because Scudder said he wanted a scope for a gun he was going to use on "targets".  The .270 is a great round for hunting deer, pronghorns and coyotes.  Flat shooting with good knock down, but you really only have a couple options for bullet weights...130 & 150.  From what I've read, the .270 needs different rates of twist for bullets less than 130 grns.  This just means you have less choices.  But for "target" shooting... why limit your choices?  If it were me (now I'm being bias) I would go with something with a lot less recoil..... because shooting targets is NOT like shooting at game and after a few shots, I get recoil sensative! 
Oh, I agree with that 100%.  I guess I over used the term biased.  Sorry.  My thought was that I think he will soon get tired of shooting targets at 100 yards and I would be like you, I would much rather prefer a 223, with plenty of inexpensive ammo to shoot at longer ranges  and avoid the heavy recoil over extended periods of shooting.  I guess I was addressing the fact he may want to eventually hunt more than target shoot, since that is my bias.  Sorry for the confusion.  I did not mean to upset anyone.  My apologies.
D. Overton North Carolina
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2006 at 08:07
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Scudder, I've shot a lot of .308 and .270 and I would look at it this way.  Unless you get a really heavy rifle or use one of those heavily weighted rests, either of those cartridges will not be very pleasant to shoot off the bench for an extended session.  Felt recoil is greatly increased when shooting at targets.

 

If you doubt you'll ever hunt any sort of big game, I'd highly recommend a .223.  You will learn to shoot much more quickly and have a lot more fun.  There's lots of cheap ammo, and lots of good match ammo that costs a lot less than .308 Match. 

 

If you get good with is and decide you want to shoot a deer, a good shot with a .223 loaded with Nosler 60gr Partitions is deadly out to 100yds.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2006 at 08:29
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A .223 is getting light for deer, unless you are confident in your ability to take head shots.  The odds of wounding an animal with a .223 and having to trail it and never finding it are high with a .223.  Ethically, I would use a larger caliber and have the latitude to be somewhat off on the shot and have the ability to take longer shots, as most of my shots have been between 100 to 200 yards in NC.  I have never had a deer run and ever one has dropped at the site, using everything from a 257wby to a 300wby.  Last year I used a 300 win. mag with 150grain Remington Core Lokt.  Yes the recoil is significant, but I only took 3 shots and took 3 deer.  Used 5 cartridges to sight the rifle, using a rest.  My tolerance for recoil is good, as I am relativley stout and have been shooting since a kid.  The only rifle thus far that has pushed my limits, somewhat, is my custom 340 Wby, but not enough to ever leave it in the closet.

  One more thing.  I probably should have not used the word ethical (or the derivative) as it is always the hunters choice and the word seems always to be used by hunters who always have a green or liberal agenda.  So if it was offensive, it was not meant to be.  Sorry for the choice of words.

D. Overton North Carolina

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2006 at 09:07
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Here's a good source for comparison when considering different calibers and recoil energy.  I used it to narrow my choices when buying a rifle for my daughter.  Settled on a 243 for her.

 

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

 

I realize that many readers here are not a fan of Chuck Hawks.  But the link above is based more on raw data than opinion.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2006 at 10:04
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A .223 is a bit light for deer, especially the larger subspecies, but he's not really wanting a "deer rifle".  A good shot with a .223 is better than a bad one with a .300 Mag, and a 60gr Partition through the heart will bring down any deer in short order.  I don't believe in head shots.  My uncle, who never hunted with anything but a .22 Rimfire used heart shots and never lost game.  (and I mean always used a .22, even for doves and quail).  The key is learning to shoot your rifle well and pass on marginal shots.

 

I don't shoot a rifle much anymore, but after 50 years of hunting I've learned that good shots and good bullets are the key, not muzzle energy.  My .243 does everything I need it to, and for the "Big stuff" I get out my .260

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2006 at 10:46
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I agree with mwyates that the key is learning to shoot well for both hunting and target.  A component of shooting well is handling the recoil, which varies not just between calibers, but also between loads of the same caliber.  If you are not comfortable because you are always flinching or preparing for the kick, then you will more often not shoot well.  That is why I used Chuck's table. . .so I have a reference for how hard things kick.

 

I have a 270 and use 130 grn rounds exclusively for hunting.  I've also found that at the range I'm only good for 20 rounds.  After that, my shoulder hurts too much.  Luckily, my best single day hunting, I took 4 shots in 30 minutes. . .all kills between 60-80 yds (the farmer had a nuisance permit). 

 

After sighting in my daughters 243, I'm now in the market for one of those for myself.  I'm a better shot with that rifle than my 270, which I firmly believe is due to the difference in the kick.  But that's just for me.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2006 at 11:11
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I was considering getting my 12 yr old son a .260 for deer hunting.  Maybe I should go with the .243.  Has anyone out there shot a .260 & .243 from the same make gun?  What was the difference in recoil?  I have a .243 BAR... which would help with recoil, but its pretty heavy for him.

 

Also, from that table.... looks like the 7mm-08 might have less recoil compared to the .260 both using a 140 grain bullet......why would that be true?    Anybody shot these two in same rifle set up?

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