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New member introduction and a ?.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2012 at 21:25
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I'm new here and wanted to introduce myself.  I've been lurking for awhile, reading the great information found in the binocular threads.  I've used cheap, inferior binoculars until just recently when I got my first set of decent glasses - Nikon Monarch ATB 8x42's.  Now I'm hooked on good optics. 
 
I know the Monarch's can't compete with all the better glass out there, but I was blown away by how much better they were than what I've always used (low cost Bushnell's and Tasco's).
 
So now I'm interested in getting a decent set of 10x42's.  However, I don't know if the little extra bit of magnification is worth less light and less steady views.  I guess it's a personal call.  I was looking at the Zen Ray ZRS HD (Summit) and wondering how they compare to the Monarch ATB's.  Are the Summit's considered better or worse than the Monarch's?
 
Thanks in advance for any input or advice.
 
Jon
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2012 at 21:36
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Welcome to the OT.  I really can't comment on a bino... to me, it's a terrible club...  I've never been able to kill a deer with a binocular, though I have caused a few headaches...

Koshkin, CFII, Bird Watcher, lots of good resources to give advice on them, though.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2012 at 21:44
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Thanks for the welcome! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2012 at 21:53
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Welcome to the OT!  I think the ZRS is superior in every way to the Monarch, including price.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2012 at 21:59
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Thanks Matt.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2012 at 22:08
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Koshkin, CFII, Bird Watcher, lots of good resources to give advice on them, though.  
Jon,
 
Welcome to the binoculars forum.
 
Klamath is our resident Zen Ray guru.
 
Koshkin is our technical optics expert.
 
Me, I'm just an old guy who can't stop buying Porro prism binoculars.
 
Stan


Edited by Bird Watcher - February/24/2012 at 03:49
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2012 at 22:28
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Thanks Stan.  I think I'm going to become one of those guys that can't stop buying binoculars. Big Grin I didn't realize it would become as addicting as all my other hobbies!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2012 at 23:10
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The Zen Ray ZRS is hands down the best binocular made period in its price range and I know Kalamath will agree with me. The ZRS is right up there with the vortex viper and on the heels of the ZR ED.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 02:03
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Originally posted by N7XW N7XW wrote:

I'm new here and wanted to introduce myself.  I've been lurking for awhile, reading the great information found in the binocular threads.  I've used cheap, inferior binoculars until just recently when I got my first set of decent glasses - Nikon Monarch ATB 8x42's.  Now I'm hooked on good optics. 
 
I know the Monarch's can't compete with all the better glass out there, but I was blown away by how much better they were than what I've always used (low cost Bushnell's and Tasco's).
 
So now I'm interested in getting a decent set of 10x42's.  However, I don't know if the little extra bit of magnification is worth less light and less steady views.  I guess it's a personal call.  I was looking at the Zen Ray ZRS HD (Summit) and wondering how they compare to the Monarch ATB's.  Are the Summit's considered better or worse than the Monarch's?
 
Thanks in advance for any input or advice.
 
Jon
 

Greetings

There are other options also.Whacko

I'd take a look also at the Bushnell Legend HD.  It has a wider FOV and has a lot of consumer support.    Also Kowa has a new bin called the SV in that price range.  I own the Zen Ray ED2 and I can tell you right now it's my favorite bin out of the 8 pair I own.  

I have the same question about the 10x that you do.  I'm big fan of the 7x but wanted to see how it goes with a 10x. And funny but I started this nonsense all myself with some Monarch 3s.  They are long gone now and it didn't take long to find something I liked more.  For myself I like a large FOV and if I remember right the ZRS is not huge in the 10x. model.  I might be trying the Zen ED2 9x36 as a compromise. Whacko (371' fov) See how this addiction goes...  You end up spending hours and hours reading reviews and dreaming about the perfect bin (which doesn't exist btw). Then you buy the next one.  Oh man, then the next one.  Soon you have several pair and could have bought that $1000 + bin you though was a ridiculous amount to ever spend on optics.  Of course by then you realize that you've had a ton of fun, have learned a lot about optics and how to evaluate and choose a decent one and have bins that you can use in various situations and also lend out when you want to impress a friend.  

So if you have the disposable income this is a harmless hobby and if like me you're retired and use them for at least a couple hours in the field each day as I do, you can even somewhat justify this madness. 

I guess what I'm saying is take your time and enjoy the search. I'd also go to a sporting goods etc. and actually handle the 10x and see how steady and worthwhile the narrower views are. Bring along your own bin as a comparison.  Ask the salesman to step outside with you as the indoor environment is not the best way to evaluate this. Go ahead and knock yourself out.  I'll be the guy standing next to you bugging the heck out of the sales guy. Wink


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 02:06
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Originally posted by ahiaring ahiaring wrote:

The Zen Ray ZRS is hands down the best binocular made period in its price range and I know Kalamath will agree with me. The ZRS is right up there with the vortex viper and on the heels of the ZR ED.

Are we to assume you've owned or used all the bins it that price range?  No offense but that sounds a little like the exuberance of optical youth and saying it's in the same league with the Viper is quite a statement considering the price difference?  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2012 at 06:57
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The ZRS is optically competitive with the original Viper. The newer Viper HD is improved, and has a very nice image, with a large sweet spot and excellent contrast. The ZRS is still quite close, and is a much better value.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 15:29
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Thanks for the input guys.  I appreciate it!

Jon

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 17:17
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Originally posted by black crow black crow wrote:

Originally posted by ahiaring ahiaring wrote:

The Zen Ray ZRS is hands down the best binocular made period in its price range and I know Kalamath will agree with me. The ZRS is right up there with the vortex viper and on the heels of the ZR ED.

Are we to assume you've owned or used all the bins it that price range?  No offense but that sounds a little like the exuberance of optical youth and saying it's in the same league with the Viper is quite a statement considering the price difference?  
BC,
 
aharing is right.  I have for example, owned both, plus a lot of various others including the Monarch as well as at least a half dozen others.  They will certainly compete on every level with the original Viper.  I have not had them side by side with the new Viper, but the new Viper does not seem too greatly different from the original.  It is a bit brighter, and has better edges but not a big difference.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 18:15
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How exactly do you know he's right? Have you handled every binocular in that price range?  Have you even looked at a Sightron 10x42 or the new Kowa 10x42 in that same price point?   I'll bet there are others too.  I'm very wary of definitive statements like that. They often say more about a bias than a fact. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 19:11
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Originally posted by black crow black crow wrote:

How exactly do you know he's right? Have you handled every binocular in that price range?  Have you even looked at a Sightron 10x42 or the new Kowa 10x42 in that same price point?   I'll bet there are others too.  I'm very wary of definitive statements like that. They often say more about a bias than a fact. 

This is twice in this thread you have used this argumentative tone.  Shocked Have you tried the Zen Ray. Do you know something that the rest of us  need to know? Please share your knowledge with us. I have looked thru the Zen-Ray and was very impressed. What is your experience? Have you looked at the Sightron or Kowa? To me the Kowa is old school and behind the times compared to some of the newer manufactures. I really enjoy using my Vortex Razor 8X42. They compare favorably to Binoculars that cost 3 times as much.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 19:22
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Originally posted by black crow black crow wrote:

How exactly do you know he's right? Have you handled every binocular in that price range?  Have you even looked at a Sightron 10x42 or the new Kowa 10x42 in that same price point?   I'll bet there are others too.  I'm very wary of definitive statements like that. They often say more about a bias than a fact. 
Have you even looked at a ZRS?  What else have you compared it to? How exactly do you know they are not the best deal in the $200-250 class binocular?   
 
Call me biased if you want, but mine is at least based on the experience I had with actually owning and using the ZRS, Bushnell Legend Ultra HD, Nikon Monarch, Vortex Diamondback, Fury and Viper...and others.  When I have an opinion I express a lot, it is backed up with enough of my own actual experience that I feel comfortable stating it.  Looking at all the positive Zen Ray posts all over the place it sems I have a lot of company.
 
Anyway for the record, I've said this before too:  "In my experience the ZRS HD is the best performing $200 class roof prism binocular I have ever handled".  YMMV.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 19:43
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 I'm debating the issue of binoculars, and the claims being made,  if you want to call that argumentative that's your prerogative.   I'm taking it from your statement you've looked through the newest offering from Kowa?

 I own Zen Ray bins, a Sightron and two Vortex bins with another Zen Ray on the way.   I've got some experience here at least with some of the quality they represent. 

I've heard these same definitive  statements about the Zen 7x36 until some folk settled down a bit and saw some of their weaknesses. Especially with the earliest version. I own a pair so I know. 

 You seem to be under the impression we are talking here about your Vortex because I don't see how the fact you like your Razors makes any statement about how good the ZRS is. 

Again I'll suggest one cannot know if any binocular is hands down the best if they haven't tried all the others in there price category out there. This is just being accurate about what's being said here.  I'm not the one who needs to have handled all these binoculars because I'm not the one making definitive claims about them.  While all opinions in the end are subjective I think it's important to be as accurate as we possibly can and try to weed out any bias we might have toward a binocular we happen to own.  Maybe that's just me.

And IMO having looked thorough some of the better Kowa's you're wrong about them.  They make some very fine binoculars that unfortunately I can't afford.   I've read some good reviews on the very new Kowa SVs that sell for about what the Zen Rays do.  I have no idea how good they actually are so I'd never make a claim about them.  Now you have made a claim about Kowa's. Have you tried them?
Kowa SV 10x42 Binocular

Kowa SV 10x42 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 19:50
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Originally posted by Klamath Klamath wrote:

Originally posted by black crow black crow wrote:

How exactly do you know he's right? Have you handled every binocular in that price range?  Have you even looked at a Sightron 10x42 or the new Kowa 10x42 in that same price point?   I'll bet there are others too.  I'm very wary of definitive statements like that. They often say more about a bias than a fact. 
Have you even looked at a ZRS?  What else have you compared it to? How exactly do you know they are not the best deal in the $200-250 class binocular?   
 
Call me biased if you want, but mine is at least based on the experience I had with actually owning and using the ZRS, Bushnell Legend Ultra HD, Nikon Monarch, Vortex Diamondback, Fury and Viper...and others.  When I have an opinion I express a lot, it is backed up with enough of my own actual experience that I feel comfortable stating it.  Looking at all the positive Zen Ray posts all over the place it sems I have a lot of company.
 
Anyway for the record, I've said this before too:  "In my experience the ZRS HD is the best performing $200 class roof prism binocular I have ever handled".  YMMV.
 

None if this addresses what I've asked.  How can one know a certain bin is the hands down absolute best without trying all the other offerings out there? I own or have owned most of those bins you mentioned and some you have not (see my response to the above poster) Still, no matter how much I liked any one of them I'd never call it the best without having seen them all.  It's just not a realistic statement IMO and would't be true as far as I knew.  Just sayin.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 20:54
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"Have you even looked at a ZRS?  What else have you compared it to? How exactly do you know they are not the best deal in the $200-250 class binocular? "

No I have not looked at the ZRS and have compared it to no other binocular I've looked at or own.  But even If I had there would be no way I could know if they were hands down the best binocular for the money if I handn't compared it to all the other offerings out there.  

I have a feeling they are great.  I read all the reviews on the Zen site and Birdforum.  I almost went for them but decided instead to buy another pair of the Zen ED2s due to a wider fov.  

I've just said what I said and asked the questions i've asked  for the sake of clarity.  I really have no desire to offend anyone. On the other hand I have every desire to speak my mind. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 21:44
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His statement is his opinion. He is entitled to his opinion. Klamath has been a valued member of this forum for almost 5 years. You come in without any credentials trying to tear the house down. I have looked over your post and not found a lot of positive information about anything. Mostly post with vague references of models off the internet. I am only asking you to provide some real specifics. Good or bad information on the optics you have experience with. If you disagree with a post tell the reasons why. Be informative. These discussions can lead to enlightenment for many. This is a normally peaceful crowd.

 By the way welcome to the forum. I hope you can have a long and valuable stay.
Lile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 21:59
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Thank you Lile, and very true.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 22:15
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Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

His statement is his opinion. He is entitled to his opinion. Klamath has been a valued member of this forum for almost 5 years. You come in without any credentials trying to tear the house down. I have looked over your post and not found a lot of positive information about anything. Mostly post with vague references of models off the internet. I am only asking you to provide some real specifics. Good or bad information on the optics you have experience with. If you disagree with a post tell the reasons why. Be informative. These discussions can lead to enlightenment for many. This is a normally peaceful crowd.

 By the way welcome to the forum. I hope you can have a long and valuable stay.
Lile

I never said he wasn't entitled to an opinion yet you seem to want to refuse me mine.  What's going on here? Personally I don't care how long someone has been here.  What exact credentials do you want? How many posts I have? What exactly does that prove?  I'm not trying to tear anything down. I'm just making a very simple statement of fact rather than conjecture.  I've stayed much more on topic than you have here.  I've stayed with the bounds of this discussion IMO.  Maybe it's not OK here  to disagree with the locals. It certainly won't be the first time I've experienced that. 
 And I  haven't seen any positive information from you either.  Basically just two attacks on me for stating my opinions. 

Thanks for the welcome. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 22:20
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Sir, your responses have been nothing short of personal attacks on a valued members "opinon". Bring something of value to the original post or stand down. You have been warned.

Edited by tahqua - February/25/2012 at 22:25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 22:24
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Originally posted by tahqua tahqua wrote:

Sir, your responses have been nothing short of personal attacks on a valued members "opinon". Bring something of value to the original post or stand down. You have been warned.

Don't worry, I have no desire to be among you another second. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/25/2012 at 22:31
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Your prerogative. We only ask for civil discourse.
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