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New Member and Leupold Mark 4 LT/T Questions

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2011 at 09:58
theprincipal View Drop Down
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Hello all.  I've lurked on here many times, but this is my first post.  I've used hunting optics for years, but have recently gotten into more tactical setups for fun.  I currently run an ACOG (TA-31), and an Aimpoint.  I've also run Eotech before, but it wasn't for me.
 
I've decided to to get into the world of long distance tactical shooting.  My rifle is an LMT 308 MWS, and I just recently got a pretty good deal on a Leupold 3.5-10x LT/T, M3, Front Focal Plane, TMR ret.  I have it mounted in an American Defense mount. 
 
This is my first experience with an optic intended to adjust elevation with a know.  It's also my first experience with milliradians.  I'm in the process of reading. 
 
For those of you that have one...here are my questions...
 
1.  The 1/2 moa windage knob has distinct (tactile and audible) clicks, but the Elevation knob (currently a 168 grn .308) is harder to turn and I really have to focus to feel the clicks.  In fact it's easier to turn past the elevation I need and turn back to my desired setting (it is a little "clickier" on the way back).  Is this normal, or should the elevation knob be as good as the windage?  Just wondering if I should send it to Leupold.
 
2.  I understand that the M3 knobs are made for "quick" adjustments to known yardages.  I'm thinking that I'll need to study and allow for elevation errors at longer distances by using the reticle as necessary.  With 1 moa clicks, I could easily be off 6" at 600 yds.  Am I thinking about the problem the right way?
 
3.  I haven't sighted it in yet, though the previous owner had it on his MWS as well.  My plan is just to sight in with Fed 168grn GMM BTHP at 100 yds, then test at 200, 300, etc....I want to be able to plink with the mountain of 147grn radway green that I've piled up, so I'm expecting to be able to document differences at each distances and use the ret. to adjust.
 
Basically, I'm pretty ignorant on this type of shooting due to lack of experience.  Are my questions / plans above on par with getting a good start with this thing?  Should I send it back to Leupold for the rough elevation know before burning through a couple hundred bucks in ammo or is this just normal and I need to live with it.
 
Sorry so much for my first post, but I know there must be some experienced fellows here who've already been down this road.
 
Thank you in advance! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2011 at 10:03
theprincipal View Drop Down
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First post and a goof....it's obviously a Leupold LR/T...not LT/T....
 
I can't see an edit function to change it....
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2011 at 16:21
theprincipal View Drop Down
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Well now...this place is hopping.  I appreciate the warm welcome and the help (sarcasm added)....and here is stupid ole me who thought that folks wanted to talk about optics on "opticstalk."Roll on Floor Laughing
 
It's pretty clear that nobody gives a sh*t, but I spent a few hours with the scope yesterday and I'm impressed.  The clicks became more distinct, and I was able to get it zeroed at 100 pretty quickly.  Only took it out to 300 yds, but the bdc dial was spot on.  I'm excited about studying this type of shooting further. 
 
Back to arfcom I go.  Mooner
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2011 at 17:06
Average Joe View Drop Down
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Trust MeSmiling Mad
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2011 at 10:05
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and just when I was getting ready to answer.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2011 at 11:15
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Originally posted by theprincipal theprincipal wrote:

Well now...this place is hopping.  I appreciate the warm welcome and the help (sarcasm added)....and here is stupid ole me who thought that folks wanted to talk about optics on "opticstalk."Roll on Floor Laughing
 
It's pretty clear that nobody gives a sh*t, but I spent a few hours with the scope yesterday and I'm impressed.  The clicks became more distinct, and I was able to get it zeroed at 100 pretty quickly.  Only took it out to 300 yds, but the bdc dial was spot on.  I'm excited about studying this type of shooting further. 
 
Back to arfcom I go.  Mooner
 
 

Sounds like a win-win situation to me.

Here is where a "win" for you is in the books:
You seem to like the scope and the knob is breaking in (I would suggest running it between the extremes of adjustment a few times).

For the Opticstalk, the "win" is that you and your need for instant gratification (during the Halloween weekend, when people generally prefer to spend time with their families than answering questions on the internet) are both heading back to arfcom.

Sounds like the issues has been amicable resolved for all involved parties.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2011 at 12:10
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Sorry
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2011 at 12:18
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Who was the on call expert that was supposed to be working here over the weekend? Man, is he in trouble. Ed is gonna dock his pay and revoke his Ed Show privledges.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2011 at 18:19
theprincipal View Drop Down
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Okay.....
 
I suppose I've had, instilled in me, a nearly instant gratification mentality from arfcom.  It's probably just because there are more members on arfcom to respond.  I actually have no idea.  Maybe it's because arfcommers are more anti-social (in the real world). 
 
We're doing Halloween activites at my house too....carving pumpkins, caramel apples, and trick-or-treating too...I have a 19 month old.
 
Anyway....the responses or lack there of just weren't what I expected...and this was nobody's fault but my own. 
 
So, I'm sorry for my flippant remarks.  I'm a man, and I was wrong...though the little mooning smiley face is pretty damn funny.  I regret it all except for that part. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2011 at 18:35
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In that case....

M3 knobs are generally a little coarser than I like for long range shooting, but they work well enough.  The ones I have seen had good tactile feel.

As far as being off at distance due to coarse adjustment, your numbers are a little off.  While a single click of an M3 knob is 1 MOA (which is ~6 inches at 600 yards), the most you can be off if you have dialed correctly is half of a click, which is ~3 inches at 600 yards.

That may or may not be acceptable depending on the kind of shooting you plan to do.  For example, most of the shooting I do at distance is at steel plates, so coarser adjustments would not bother me a whole lot.  When you build up your ballistic reference table, work it out in terms of MOA and in terms of the error build up at different distances.

For anything but the most accurate rifles and the most appropriate conditions, you may find that the error due to M3 knob is a lot less significant than it seems.

As far as the feel goes, that is really a personal choice.  If the knob adjust consistently and accurately, I probably would not both sending it in.  Then again, if the feel is so bad you can not get used to it, then by all means send it out for them to look at.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2011 at 18:47
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Sometimes it takes awhile to answer a question. 

I do not know a whole lot about that scope, but 1MOA adjustment is rather coarse. And so yes at 600yds 1 click is essentially 6MOA. I personally would prefer something with 1/4MOA clicks or even better 0.1Mil clicks.

I would also probably start with your 147grn bullets and get a feel for the rifle and then move up the the GMM 168grn you have. And just because you can shoot good groups at 100yds does not mean you can do it at 600yds.

This is a very good post to read.

http://www.opticstalk.com/long-range-101-amendments_topic23969.html
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/31/2011 at 19:21
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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m2 and m3 leos have a "compression" collar unlike a lot of other makers who make contact with the set screw directly against the post. It the turrret cap is tilted in the least the "stiffness" goes up considerably. Undo the screws make sure the cap is completely down then rest the screws. Leo set screws are also really bad. Any amount of shooting will loosen them and a dap of blue loctite goes along way
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2011 at 09:38
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Welcome to the OT.

I don't shoot Leupold.

You chose a good mount.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/01/2011 at 18:59
theprincipal View Drop Down
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Thank you for the responses. 
 
I've actually been running the rifle almost exclusively with 147 grn (Radway Green) and a trijicon accupoint scope until I put this thing on.  Because the scope came with a .308 168 grn cap, I wanted to try that.  This stuff is definitely more accurate than the military surplus stuff. 
 
I was able to hold right at moa out to 300.  I can shoot this far comfortably out on our place, but I'd need to do a little work to shoot further.  My brother actually shoots at a range in Oklahoma (I'm in TX) and they have steel set up out to 600yds.  I expect to get out there soon.
 
My next step is to try the 150 grain federal soft points I normally hunt with.  Looking at the charts on the Federal sight, it looks like I should still be within about a half inch out to 300.  I'll see...
 
After that, I'm going to test my hold overs / unders with the Radway so that I can plink a little cheaper. 
 
Again, thank you for the guidance.  I'll also look at the set screws and consider a very fine ammount of blue loctite on them.  I've used it for mount screws, but never with something this fine. 
 
I've printed off the book / pamphlet on the TMR reticle...I have plenty of studying to do. 
 
Thank you for all your help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2011 at 13:45
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Where in Tx?  It's a small state, several of us here on the OT are in Texas, you're probably close to someone.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2011 at 13:56
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Originally posted by theprincipal theprincipal wrote:

Well now...this place is hopping.  I appreciate the warm welcome and the help (sarcasm added)....and here is stupid ole me who thought that folks wanted to talk about optics on "opticstalk."Roll on Floor Laughing
 
It's pretty clear that nobody gives a sh*t, but I spent a few hours with the scope yesterday and I'm impressed.  The clicks became more distinct, and I was able to get it zeroed at 100 pretty quickly.  Only took it out to 300 yds, but the bdc dial was spot on.  I'm excited about studying this type of shooting further. 
 
Back to arfcom I go.  Mooner
 
 
Sorry I was busy over on ARFCOM answering optics questions there. Laugh


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - November/02/2011 at 13:58
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2011 at 17:48
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Welcome to Optics Talk. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/02/2011 at 18:05
theprincipal View Drop Down
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I live NE of Dalles in the Sulphur Springs / Greenville area.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 08:32
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Welcome to the O.T. theprincipal!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/03/2011 at 22:29
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Welcome to the OT!  To answer the other question,you need a total of 50 post to be able to correct.
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