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NEW LEUPOLD SCOPE FOR T/C ENCORE

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2008 at 21:29
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I've decided on a LEUPOLD 4.5X14X40 SF 30mm LONG RANGE for my ENCORE muzzeloader. What ya think????
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2008 at 11:00
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Originally posted by HAWKEYE6MM HAWKEYE6MM wrote:

I've decided on a LEUPOLD 4.5X14X40 SF 30mm LONG RANGE for my ENCORE muzzeloader. What ya think????
..............................................I don`t think that is enough magnification. You need at least a 6x24!!!   Roll%20on%20Floor%20Laughing........A 4.5x14 at the very most, is what you put on a long range, flat shooting centerfire; a 257, 270 Wby., a 270 WSM, a 300 mag. etc., not on a muzzle loader!! Your effective hunting range for your muzzle loader is in reality about 250 yards or less. A 4.5x14 IMO, is just plain over-scoping that rifle! At the very most a 3x9 would be more than sufficient and match better to the velocity and trajectory of your rifle. Also IMO, even a 3x9 is too much!..............4.5x on the low end for shots at say 50 yards and less, gives you a reduced FOV, which increases your time to acquire the target. Certainly, a 4.5x14 scope weighs more. Every ounce of reduced weight does make a difference on long hunts.........Many people have a tendancy to over scope their rifles and fall into that "more magnification is better" syndrome. In many cases more magnification is NOT better!................At the most, I`d say a 2x7 variable will be more than adequate! Many hunters use 1x3`s or 1.5x5`s on their big 375`s, 416`s 45/70`s etc., They are not only flatter shooting than a muzzle loader, but have better long range capabilities than a muzzle loader.................In your case, a nice 1x3 or a 1.25/1.5X 4 or 5 is much better, not only for 250 yard work, but would be ideal for closer encounters as well. Match the scope`s variable to your rifle`s effective hunting range and terrain conditions...................... 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2008 at 16:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2008 at 17:08
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Tagged...
.............................................Is the word "tagged" another word for,,,,, in agreement?...............
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2008 at 17:23
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Ditto
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2008 at 17:30
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Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Tagged...
.............................................Is the word "tagged" another word for,,,,, in agreement?...............
 
No Sir, it means I have "tagged" this thread to receive email notification when someone posts on it. Just curiuos....Big%20Smile 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2008 at 18:40
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I learn something new every day!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2008 at 19:40
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BIG SQUEEZE, GOOD EVENING. I really need the focus. I would prefer a 3x10 that has a focus adjustment, if they made one. I love the FOV of my 2x7x32 Leupold that is on it now, I just need the focus. The 4.5x14x40 will put me at the 100yd range zero with the benifit of the VARMINTER reticle to accurately place me on target with confidence at various distances. I plan on working up to 300-400yd groups. I really think it is possible.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2008 at 19:49
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Oh by the way, the average distance for a  hit on a deer is 50yds. I have sighted thru my 2x7 at 4x many times and found it accepticle for glassing. But I would like to have had a reasonably priced 3x10 w/ AO.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/14/2008 at 19:54
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Is this setup for target shooting, or big game hunting?  Hunting @ 400 yds with a muzzle loader is, how can i say this...Nuts!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2008 at 04:26
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1 to 3,4 or 5 power variable will serve you well for any reasonable muzzle loading application. Have a look at http://www.swfa.com/pc-4424-227-trijicon-125-4x24-accu-point-rifle-scope.aspx
as it is a great low light scope with no batteries and more than precise enough for big game hunting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2008 at 17:03
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I try to shoot every couple of days. I have two fixed targets, 25&150yds respectively. As I shoot right off of my porch, it is easy to be this frequent. I wouldn't consider a long shot to deer beyond the 200yd, but I wouldn't hesitate to deliver a killing round at a sheet of target paper at beyond 200-250yds. I say we all have a duty to send as much target paper to it's doom as possible. My intrest in muzzeloading stems from wanting to eliminate the inherent variables of case consistantcies and preperation. I know I am asking alot from my encore, but why not.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2008 at 23:05
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I'm curious as to what you are planning to shoot at 300-400 yds?  I hope it's nothing that breathes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/22/2008 at 23:55
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You do realize that muzzloaders are not very accurate rifles right?  Shooting a 3 to 4 inch group at 100 yards is really about all you can ask for.  I have an omega and my dad has a pro hunter and they both shoot about the same.

I am having a hard time believing that you are thinking you can get more consistency out of a muzzleloader than a rifle.  I mean if you push a load down tighter in the barrel with the ram rod from one shot to the next it is going to affect pressures and cause variations in your shooting.   If you break up the powder pullets by pushing it to hard it is going to burn different.  The bullets don't fit tight in the lans, and in many cases are in sabots that are never going to give you a complete seal as the powder is touched off.  There are so many inconsistencies in muzzleloading it not even funny. 

Really that is why most people like it, cause you never know what you are going to get.  My dad and I shot round balls with cloth patches up until about 3 years ago when we got our TC rifles.  We had some great times shooting the patch and ball, you could miss by a foot or two when you knew you were aiming perfect.  Thats the fun of it in my opinion, more challenging and harder to connect with. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2008 at 15:11
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

You do realize that muzzloaders are not very accurate rifles right?  Shooting a 3 to 4 inch group at 100 yards is really about all you can ask for.  I have an omega and my dad has a pro hunter and they both shoot about the same.

I am having a hard time believing that you are thinking you can get more consistency out of a muzzleloader than a rifle.  I mean if you push a load down tighter in the barrel with the ram rod from one shot to the next it is going to affect pressures and cause variations in your shooting.   If you break up the powder pullets by pushing it to hard it is going to burn different.  The bullets don't fit tight in the lans, and in many cases are in sabots that are never going to give you a complete seal as the powder is touched off.  There are so many inconsistencies in muzzleloading it not even funny. 

Really that is why most people like it, cause you never know what you are going to get.  My dad and I shot round balls with cloth patches up until about 3 years ago when we got our TC rifles.  We had some great times shooting the patch and ball, you could miss by a foot or two when you knew you were aiming perfect.  Thats the fun of it in my opinion, more challenging and harder to connect with. 
 
3 or 4" groups scoped???  If so thats not the average at all IME.  2" sure but just like a CF once you find the sweet spot for loads and shooter ability allows - 1" or better groups are not out of the question.  You are absolutley right about the inconsistencies, that is why Ml shooters are so methodical.  Load to load variance can greatly be reduced by sticking to a routine, process vs just dump and ram.  This comes with shooting ML's and not the exact same one either.  The side benefit is you become pretty effecient with these tools.
 
Have you tried different powders (sounds like your using pellets which is odd for a ball and patcher), bullets,sabots, primer, et".  ML is the like reloading, you may have to search a little to find pay dirt but once you do your laughing.
 
As far as shooting long range well all i can say is the scope is the least of my worries, finding a bullet with a BC better then a brick is number 1, number 2 is finding a load that shows both accuracy but the best possible MV and #3 is learning how to make adjustments for the conditions.  I personally use a 10x, no BDC reticle either.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/24/2008 at 17:26
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Originally posted by antler addiction antler addiction wrote:

3 or 4" groups scoped???  If so thats not the average at all IME.  2" sure but just like a CF once you find the sweet spot for loads and shooter ability allows - 1" or better groups are not out of the question.  You are absolutley right about the inconsistencies, that is why Ml shooters are so methodical.  Load to load variance can greatly be reduced by sticking to a routine, process vs just dump and ram.  This comes with shooting ML's and not the exact same one either.  The side benefit is you become pretty effecient with these tools. 


Well sure from a bench, but how many people actually hunt from a bench with sand bags.  I was talking practical field accuracy,  I guess I should have stated that, but from a bench I would say you are might be right, I would say 1 1/2 is probably closer to the best our TCs will do.  I guess I have never considered a muzzleloader a bench rest gun so bench accuracy does not mean much to me.  Off hand, kneeling or sitting is how I shoot my gun.

In Utah legally we can only have 1x scopes.  I actually like it, huge field of view and with crosshairs, it does not block out the animal like the sights do.

I have been hunting with muzzleloader almost every season since I was 14 and shooting them since I was 10, so I have tried pretty much tried every powder and bullet I could get my hands on.  No newbie to the black powder sport.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2008 at 00:58
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 It appeared to me the poster is looking more for bench time then hunting reasons, as he stated he'd just like to kill paper at extended ranges not game.  No disrespect intended it just seemed as though you were stating a ML isn't accurate enough to attempt such a feat.   I spend a lot of time personally shooting my inlines from a bench, i find it fun and challenging.  I have been shooting ML's myself for 20+ years but really gotten into them the past 10years. 
 
Once again sorry not my intent to ruffle feathers.  TC
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/25/2008 at 01:57
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Nothing ruffled, and sorry if my reply came across that way as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/17/2008 at 15:23
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Originally posted by HAWKEYE6MM HAWKEYE6MM wrote:

I've decided on a LEUPOLD 4.5X14X40 SF 30mm LONG RANGE for my ENCORE muzzeloader. What ya think????
 
Well my opinion is a little different. In Iowa we either use muzzleloaders or shotguns to hunt deer. One of my Encore 50 cal muskets has a 30mm tube leupold VX III  4.5-14x50 and another an Omega 50 cal musket has a Bushnell 4200 4-16x40 and another an Encore has what is normaly expected a 3-9x40 Nikon Omgea (and the glass is crap).  Now the reason why one might wish to have a high magnification optic on a 50 cal musket is because at the 200 yd distance which I shoot most of my deer at the higher magnification allows me to evaluate the rack of the deer and decide if I want to harvest a particular animal or let it grow and mature. I only shoot 10 point and larger Bucks other wise I shoot does. The second reason one might wish to have that magnification is that any deer here with a branched antler 3pt is a buck where a spike with no branched antler is able to be taken with a doe tag. Now since I perfer to hunt Texas style and set up a box blind or ladder stand two hundred yards from a food plot, this works very well.  And anyone who thinks you cant get sub minute of angle groups out of a muzzleloader is simply mistaken.  Bullberry guarantees sub minute of angle on ALL their barrels including 50 Cal musket. http://www.bullberry.com/ Now while you guys are laughing about how inaccurate and short range those old muzzleloaders are just remember that the kentucky long rifles which were used in the American Revolution rather surprised the British because the Americans were making accurate and deadly strikes past 400 yds.  In case you missed the concept it is one of the major reasons we won the American Revolution - the demoralizing effect concealed fronteersmen using indian tactics and muskets with better long range ability than what the British had.
My sons and I have in fact shot our muskets out to 400 yds and I am convinced that the boys could dial in correction with a tactical scope on a 50 caliber musket out to at least 600 yds on a man size target if we were to put a 10x Super Sniper on one, you might want to think that through since Muskets are not considered "firearms" by BATF and might be the only thing left after the next election.  Now each musket like many other rifles seems to favor a paticular grain powder charge one of mine likes 120 grains of tripple 7 another likes 150 grains of tripple 7.  So I think a 4.5-14x40 Lupold  would be a fine choice.
Anyone want to prove me wrong jump right in and tell us of your extensive expenience with 50 caliber muskets. http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/muzzleloader/spit-fire-tmz/
Want accuracy run a wet patch then a dry patch down the barrel after each shot and keep the load and seating depth consistent.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/17/2008 at 15:46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2009 at 20:42
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My TC Omega is a tack driver.  I have a Burris Fullfield II scope on it in 3-9x40.  I shoot 250 gr shockwaves over blackhorn 209 powder.  I can shoot clover leaf groups with it no problem.  Heck it would shoot 3" groups with the iron sights before I even dialed in the load.  It truly is one of the most accurate guns I have owned.  I'd like a better scope on it, but it works so well, I am kind of afraid to change anything. 

Personally I think people way overlook the importance of a good set of rings/bases.  I have steel Warne bases with their QR rings.  They were over $100 for the set and were worth every penny.  For a ML, I like to be able to take the scope off when I'm cleaning it, etc.  I take it off every time I clean it and it has NEVER moved when I recheck the zero.  Just put the scope as far forward in the slots as it will go before locking them down. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2009 at 18:38
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hey huntingaddict, ive heard good things about the blackhorn powder and 250 gr, shockwaves. how much powder do you use.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/19/2009 at 21:21
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check this muzzle loader out for long range, have a few friends that have them and have taken some nice game at long distance 300to400yrd shotshttp://www.ultimatefirearms.com/
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2012 at 08:11
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Nikon Monarch Gold 30 mm 1 1/2 - 6 X 42 works great.Big Smile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2012 at 11:57
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Welcome to the OT Peddler!
 
The responce you gave was for a thread from 2008,good recommendation though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2012 at 12:05
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[QUOTE=stickbow46] Welcome to the OT Peddler!
 
The responce you gave was for a thread from 2008,good recommendation though.
[/QUOTE

stickbow46, thanks for the welcome, I guess I should have paid more attention. I use that scope on a TC G2 Contender .45 ML.

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