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New Hunter, Need Help

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2012 at 17:22
Crashblade View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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I've always watned to hunt, and finally I'm getting around to doing it. I'm shopping around and I'm looking to spend the money right the first time. I'm looking to spend roughly $1100 on a scope.

First thing firsts, Optics. The face off is between a Leupold Mark 4 LR/T 4.5-14x50 and the Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14x50. Both are generally in the same price range, though the Leupold will go up about $200 with the illuminated reticles (is it really worth it). From what I've read and experienced myself (zeiss camera lenses), the zeiss optics are rivaled only by swaro's IMHO. I'd like some advice on this.
 
I've had a few buddies telling me that if i have good glass, illuminated reticles are not a big deal and they say i should look into x-10x40's, but i'm looking for a little flexibility for future long rage use if the need presents itself.
 
Second thing, the rifle. I've narrowed it down to the Browning X-Bolt and the Winchester Model 70. Any advice on those?
 
Sorry for the long post. Thanks in advanced Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2012 at 18:37
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I'm perplexed with the same scope issues however if you are hunting I would say you don't need the mark IV, that is a tactical scope and if you are not well versed in the use of a scope you are probably buying more than you need, but I don't know your specific needs either. Secondly depending on what you are hunting a Variable Power scope may not be your best bet rather a fixed power could do what you need. Lastly for hunting the price of the Mark IV is too much and there are very good hunting scopes out their for a fraction of the price.
 
As for the rifle depending on what your are hunting the Model 70 is great however if you want something versatile and be able to shoot are far as you want and take down about whatever you want look into a 300 Win Mag or a Win-Ultra Mag (the ultra mag is my personal favorite reach out and kill something). Good luck an happy hunting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2012 at 19:03
Crashblade View Drop Down
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Funny you mention it, i'm actually set on the 300 Win Mag. I have a shot a few rifles and by far the 300 WM is what i like best. I dont want to get a flaming thread on how the 300 WM is overkill etc. 

As for the scopes, the reason why i'm buying that scope is for vesatility, i really dont wanna buy a scope and then say "well this doenst do this or that, or i cant shoot at X range". When i buy something i ike to buy it right the first time. What i'm mostly concerened is about the experience others like yourself have found using scopes. I do understand the mechanics of scopes, but they few that i have used on some rifles my friends have are really low end, and i havent been able to compare the better ones.
 
Hopefully this weekend i'll find some scopes in the hunting retailers around town.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2012 at 19:45
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I don't think you can go wrong with either rifle.  I have an X-Bolt and 2-Model 70's (1-CRF & 1-Push Feed).  The X-Bolt is a great handling rifle, accurate, and has a nice trigger.  It's probably a good pound lighter than my 25-06 with scopes mounted (both have the same scope).  All 3 are shooters.  

I don't own a new Model 70, but I have looked at them and they are really nice.  If Winchester chambered their Sporter in 280, I would've bought that over the X-Bolt.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2012 at 23:10
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I would look at the 700 xcr in 300 the trynite finish is coated over Stainless and will take a fair amount of abuse and the B and C stock looks nice also it has the 40x trigger. Plus a whole slue of upgrades if you want to in the future.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2012 at 05:47
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What are you hunting and where?   Have you looked at Sako? I like the model 70 action and safety.  They are also easy to up grade with a new barrel.
 
When I buy stuff I try and make up a list of what I need to do the most.  That way I stay focused and my money stays focused.   "Tactical" scopes tend to have too many knobs as brush catchers.  As you go up in magnfication the scopes tend to have less field of view making fast shots harder.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2012 at 06:10
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I would say buy the rifle that fits you best, whichever one that may be.
The scopes you are comparing, one is a tactical and one is a hunting scope.  If you are primarily going to use it to hunt I would say buy the hunting scope, if you are going to shoot paper more, then either one would do.  If you want more versatility you might want to take a look at some of the 2-12 or 3-18 scopes, or the bushnel 6500l 2.5-16.  Lots and lots of choices out there.
Maybe you should buy one of each  lol.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2012 at 10:34
Dakotaman View Drop Down
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These are both great scopes but they both cost more than what you need to spend for great hunting ability and they are short on high end magnification for your rifle. Your .300 Win mag is capable of hunting out to 1000 yards (using Berger 210g bullets) if you and your rifle can shoot that well. Few over the counter rifles (the two you mentioned are good for hunting but they are not made for 1000 yard accuracy) and few new hunters can shoot that well. Consider the Savage long range hunter or the Rem 700 Sendero as better choices for over the counter long range accuracy (notice they are heavy for a reason). 
 
Given a good rifle and long range shooting skill, a hunter needs to see and aim precisely at 1000 yards but also needs a large enough field of view to pick up 50 yard running game instantly and follow it in the scope before its gone. A 6-24x or 6.5-20x magnification on this type of rifle works well. You can put the cross hairs on a prairie dog's head at 1000 yards and you can shoot a running antelope at 50 yards just fine. All the Leupold VX3 range scopes are great (and I like them) for this and the low to very high magnification range of a scope like the Bushnell 6500 is great for this application. I highly recommend mil-dot reticles for long range hunting with that cartridge so you can instantly range game with the reticle and you can use precise hold overs/windage without fiddling with the turrets. Hunters often need to get a shot off within a second or two and typically don't have time to fumble with a range finder and reticle elevation adjustments. Target/tactical turrets are also good so you have the choice of dialing up windage and elevation if you really need it in certain situations (like testing loads at 1000 yards).
It is great that you are allocating sufficient funds for optics because they are a key ingredient but be sure to use money wisely on a premium barrel with a perfectly aligned chamber if you really want to shoot well enough at 1000 yards to actually hunt non-preditory game at that range. Reloading your own ammo will also be a must for tuning ammo to your specific rifle and getting ammo cheap enough to practice a lot. 
 
Best of luck on your endeavors and enjoy that new toy!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2012 at 12:04
Crashblade View Drop Down
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Good post dakotaman. The Zeiss have the rapid z reticles which I'm definately looking to get. It'll help much when I start feeling more confident in taking those longer shots. As long as I can hit anything under 1000 yards I'm good. Unfortunately, the victory line of Zeiss has everything I want in a scope but it comes with a 2k plus price tag. I see a garage sale and lots of eBay sales happening soon.

@gremcat, unfortunately I haven't shoot a rem 700, but I must have missed that xcr on their site. I'll look into it.

Any benefits over a floating barrel vs a non floating barrel? From what I've read it helps with accuracy and other "stuff". Does it really make that much of a difference?      
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2012 at 13:37
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Originally posted by Crashblade Crashblade wrote:

Good post dakotaman. The Zeiss have the rapid z reticles which I'm definately looking to get. It'll help much when I start feeling more confident in taking those longer shots. As long as I can hit anything under 1000 yards I'm good. Unfortunately, the victory line of Zeiss has everything I want in a scope but it comes with a 2k plus price tag. I see a garage sale and lots of eBay sales happening soon.

@gremcat, unfortunately I haven't shoot a rem 700, but I must have missed that xcr on their site. I'll look into it.

Any benefits over a floating barrel vs a non floating barrel? From what I've read it helps with accuracy and other "stuff". Does it really make that much of a difference?      


Wow, that's a long poke for "hunting" big game. Not to be argumentative, but why that far? Anyway, regarding the rifles, both are very good. I'd lean toward the Winny, but either would be fine...just your preference. Perhaps the Extreme Weather in .300 WM (a great choice BTW). Scopewise, I'd recommend a VX6 Leupy, a Bushy 6500, a Sightron Big Sky or a Leica ER (top end type and pricey). The Bushy, Sightron and the Leica all have hydrophobic lens coatings...which is a nice feature. Good luck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2012 at 20:40
Dakotaman View Drop Down
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Forgot to mention illuminated reticles. In most states it is not legal to hunt before 1/2 hour before sunrise or 1/2 hour after sunset. There is plenty of available light during that time to see a normal reticle for hunting as long as you have good glass and a large optic lens. My deer rifle is a Leupy 3.5-10x50 and that is all the light I will ever need.
I occassionally hunt where it is legal to shoot coyotes all night long. I occasssionally get out at 12:00 midnight or so and commonly start calling about 45 minutes before sunup. In these situations, the illuminated reticle is a BIG help. As a matter of fact I wouldn't hunt in those situations without it. I use the Burris Firefly reticle on the 4200 Elite and personally don't particularly care for managing power on my scope. It always seems that I have power failure for some reason when I need it the most. Unless we are military or law enforcement, most of us just seem to get the illumination because the guys in the movies have it. Its cool but most of us don't really need it.
 
 
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