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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 09:30
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Optics GrassHopper
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Joined: March/28/2011
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Hi y'all.  I am new here to OT and new to rifle optics in general. 
 
Here is what I have:
 
Ruger 10/22 (.22LR) with Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40
 
Ruger Mini-14 (.223) with a Bushnell Red/Green Dot Sight - no magnification
 
Marlin XL7 (30-06) with package 3-9x40 scope (probably a Bushnell Banner)
 
I am happy with the 10/22 and Nikon Prostaff set-up.  I have only had the scope for a few weeks, but it was easy to zero and it has held its settings quite well.  I don't plan any changes for this one.
 
The sight on the Mini-14 has a minimum 3 MOA dot on it.  I am considering moving this sight to my Mossberg 500 for turkey and deer and replacing it on the Mini 14 with either a Nikon Buckmaster 3-9x40 with BDC recticle or a Nikon Coyote 3-9x40 with BDC recticle.  My questions for the group on this idea are:
 
1.  What is the difference between the Buckmaster and the Coyote other than price?  I think the filter on the end so the Coyote scope does not reflect may be the difference.  Are there any other functional differences? 
 
2.  What is the quality level of these scopes?
 
3.  Which would you put on a rifle you wanted to use for varmints?
 
Finally, I am not happy with the package scope on the Marlin.  This scope has had several issues.  First, the package rings did not hold the scope steady.  It moved at least 0.5" forward.  I have replaced these rings with Weaver rings that are holding firm, but there are other isseues.
 
After replacing the rings and the ring base, the scope will get zeroed in for a few rounds then it will begin shooting to a different point of impact.  It may shift by several inches.  I am shooting from a bench with a Caldwell rifle rest that holds the whole rifle.  While I may not be the best shot, I am not missing by nearly as much as the changes.  Letting the rifle cool down does not restore the point of impact to the zeroed spot, it tends to be at or very near the "new normal".  This scope has done this multiple times and I am shooting the same ammo when it does it, i.e., not changing bullet weights or other load factors.
 
As I stated before, I am new to rifle scopes, having shot handguns, shotguns and unscoped rifles for decades.  My questions on this set--up are:
 
4.  Is it possible for a scope, particularly a cheap scope to have the zero point move around?  This is on a 30-06, so there is some recoil, but it is not a heavy recoil rifle like some. 
 
5.  If the scope is defective, I will replace it, probably with the same scope as I choose for the Mini-14 in 3-9x40 or maybe a 4.5-14x40 or something similar.  What is the best all round scope magnification to take advantage of a 30-06's capabilities?  I realize there will be subjectivity here.
 
I greatly appreciate the collective wisdom of this group.  I have heard great things about this group on another forum. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 09:35
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Chief Sackscratch

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Yes the scope on you Marlin is most likely not holding zero, it could be other things but a good way to test this is take the prostaff off the 10-22 mount it on the marlin and see if you get it to repeat.

 
 
Before we can recommend we need to know what kinda price range you want to spend on these two scopes, either collectively or each.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 09:42
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1.  What is the difference between the Buckmaster and the Coyote other than price?  I think the filter on the end so the Coyote scope does not reflect may be the difference.  Are there any other functional differences? 
 

ack, i cant remember if they are the same optically, or if the coyote got monarch ucc glass.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 10:22
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Yes the scope on you Marlin is most likely not holding zero, it could be other things but a good way to test this is take the prostaff off the 10-22 mount it on the marlin and see if you get it to repeat.

 
 
Before we can recommend we need to know what kinda price range you want to spend on these two scopes, either collectively or each.
 
SVT Tactical - Good idea to put the Nikon on the 30-06 to test it out.  I was trying to avoid multiple scope zeroing in sessions, but this would for sure prove that it is the scope or the rifle.  I can't imaging how the rifle would be doing this, but you never know.  This rifle is new to me and does not have iron sights to verify the scope agains.
 
I am prepared to spend roughly $600 for the pair of new scopes.  If I need to go up a little, say another $100, that would not be a problem.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 10:30
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Chief Sackscratch

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Ok.  And what will be the main goal/purpose of these two rifles?  Hunting, what conditions? Target, what ranges? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 10:37
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Optics GrassHopper
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Joined: March/28/2011
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Ok.  And what will be the main goal/purpose of these two rifles?  Hunting, what conditions? Target, what ranges? 
 
Mini-14 has been plinking with the red dot, but I am transitioning it to coyote hunting and the red dot does not seem like the right tool for this job.
 
The 30-06 is for 1) target hunting - 100-200 yards at my range - and 2) coyote hunting.  I could also use it for deer hunting if I go to KY, but I am restricted to a slug gun in OH for deer.  The ultimte reason I bought the 30-06 is to go on a 3) caribou hunt in a few years - that is another savings project - but I wanted to have the rifle and be sure it works prior to spending that chunk of change and having hardware issues.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 10:45
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Chief Sackscratch

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For the 30-06 I'd go with a Zeiss conquest 3-9, great all around hunting scope and great glass
Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope Z-Plex Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5214609920
  • Matte
  • Z-Plex
  • 1"
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$399.95 
Add Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:

Its argueably the best hunting scope for the price range
 
 
For the Mini, lets not kid ourselves and think its a real accurate gun, most arent'.  For it I'd want something that would be quick to get on target and easy to center on target as well,  Right now for the price its hard to beat this little guy, 
Vortex 2-7x32 Viper Rifle Scope Versa-Plex C3 Vortex 2-7x32 Viper Rifle Scope
Stock # - VPRM02G4
  • Matte
  • Versa-Plex C3
  • 1"
  • Discontinued closeout price
  • 35% OFF
$169.95 
Add Vortex 2-7x32 Viper Rifle Scope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 10:53
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Optics Apprentice
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Joined: March/07/2011
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

For the 30-06 I'd go with a Zeiss conquest 3-9, great all around hunting scope and great glass
Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope Z-Plex Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5214609920
  • Matte
  • Z-Plex
  • 1"
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$399.95 
Add Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:

Its argueably the best hunting scope for the price range


also, if you don't mind buying "factory seconds" and the like, you can find this scope, NIB, for considerably less.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 11:02
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Chief Sackscratch

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Samplelist.com offers some great deals on stuff like that
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 11:04
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Samplelist.com offers some great deals on stuff like that


there's also another site, i'm assuming it's in competition, but shouldn't be too hard to find, where they also have seconds, demos and displays.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 11:05
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Chief Sackscratch

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Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:

Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Samplelist.com offers some great deals on stuff like that


there's also another site, i'm assuming it's in competition, but shouldn't be too hard to find, where they also have seconds, demos and displays.
then keep it to yourself and dont' bring it up at allWink

Edited by SVT_Tactical - March/28/2011 at 11:06
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 11:14
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OT TITAN

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Originally posted by Dyelynn Dyelynn wrote:

Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Samplelist.com offers some great deals on stuff like that


there's also another site, i'm assuming it's in competition, but shouldn't be too hard to find, where they also have seconds, demos and displays.

yeah thats a touchy subject, and rightfully so considering the host of this forum sells optics.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 11:15
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true enough... my apologies swfa :)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 11:51
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

1.  What is the difference between the Buckmaster and the Coyote other than price?  I think the filter on the end so the Coyote scope does not reflect may be the difference.  Are there any other functional differences? 
 

ack, i cant remember if they are the same optically, or if the coyote got monarch ucc glass.

I think it's a Buckmaster with an ARD and a camo job. The Anti Reflection Device screws on and off.   
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 13:50
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Optics GrassHopper
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

For the 30-06 I'd go with a Zeiss conquest 3-9, great all around hunting scope and great glass
Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope Z-Plex Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5214609920
  • Matte
  • Z-Plex
  • 1"
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$399.95 
Add Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:

Its argueably the best hunting scope for the price range
 
 
 
What makes this a better value thatn the Buckmaster?  There is about a $190 spread, $180 if you add in the BDC.  I appreciate your perspective.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 13:56
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Chief Sackscratch

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Glass, name, value, reliability, clarity....... the list goes on
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 16:53
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Optics Master Extraordinaire
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

For the 30-06 I'd go with a Zeiss conquest 3-9, great all around hunting scope and great glass
Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope Z-Plex Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5214609920
  • Matte
  • Z-Plex
  • 1"
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$399.95 
Add Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest Rifle Scope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:

Its argueably the best hunting scope for the price range


There isn't much argument over that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/28/2011 at 23:09
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

For the 30-06 I'd go with a Zeiss conquest 3-9, great all around hunting scope and great glass
 
Its argueably the best hunting scope for the price range
 
 
For the Mini, lets not kid ourselves and think its a real accurate gun, most arent'.  For it I'd want something that would be quick to get on target and easy to center on target as well,  Right now for the price its hard to beat this little guy, 
 
You could save yourself a lot of time and headache by just getting these two and never looking back.  IMO, you'd have to spend quite a bit more to get something better!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2011 at 14:44
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Optics GrassHopper
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

a good way to test this is take the prostaff off the 10-22 mount it on the marlin and see if you get it to repeat.
 
SVT Tatical - good call on making the scope swap.  I put the Nikon Prostaff on my Marlin and the scope that came with the Marlin on my Mini-14.  The best I could do with the Marlin was 3 shots in 1" with #s 4 & 5 flyers and an overall 5 shot group of 5-6 inches.  The Mini-14 with the "Marlin" scope was ringing the 6" steel plate at the 200 yard marker about 75% of the time.  I think some stock work is in order for the Marlin as I can slide a $1 bill under the barrel on the right side, but I can't get it under the left side. 
 
I have looked at the Ziess scope that was recommended and am quite impressed.  I suspect one of these is in the future for my Marlin - assuming I can get it shooting straight with some stock work.  I may just keep the Marlin scope on the Mini-14 until it proves to not work for the intended purpose or fails.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2011 at 21:40
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i'll line up behind the zeiss as well.  there are a few others in the price range that are similar, but the great thing about the zeiss is, if you end up not liking it, you can sell it for pretty much what you paid... i doubt many other brands will retain that much after purchase value.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/01/2011 at 22:42
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The Predator reticle is very different than the BCD. Its setup is more dedicated to Coyote hunting
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