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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2007 at 10:29
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              I am new to long range shooting but not new to guns. I work in law enforcement and want to get into longer range stuff. I just

bought a new Remington 700 VLS .223 and am having a hard time choosing a scope.  I know I want mildot and target knobs but other than that I am still learning. I want something nice enough that I can train with our snipers and learn how to shoot. But I also need something affordable.

              All of the snipers on our team have Leupolds but I cant fork out a grand+  for a scope right now. I have read the reviews here about the Tactical Millet scope but I am not convinced its worth buying. I also know I want something with variable power because this gun will be for calling coyotes once in a while.

              Thanks for any advice. It looks like you guys have a good forum here.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2007 at 12:30
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Welcome to Optics Talk!!

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2007 at 16:09
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Bighouse, you probably need to decide the following before you settle on the scope:

1) How much are you willing to pay?  While there are good deals in most price ranges, by and large you do get what you paid for (with some exceptions, certainly).

2) How big are the targets and how far do you plan to shoot?  From your choice of 223Rem caliber, I am assuming that you are not going to get into 1000 yards shooting, but what would be the maximum range for you?  For coyotes, from what I understand, you'll probably be staying within 400 yards (still a very long way for shooting at a moving target).  What about other applications? 

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2007 at 20:21
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        As far as distance, I am not sure how far I will be shooting, I am very new to all of this and know very little. I think 400 yards would be the max. Thats pushing it for distance on our range. My M4 has a Trijicon Reflex on it and my 40mm Launcher has an Eotech. I just decided I would like to learn to shoot with a scope and the snipers on our team have been giving me advice.

       

        I just ran across this Nikon on Gunbroker. It looks pretty nice and probably still in my price range for now.

 

         http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=65125683

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/05/2007 at 00:08
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Well, 400 yards is not all that far away for good glass, so I think you've got the right magnification range in mind.  It should top out at 10x or 12x or thereabouts.  I think you should also stick with either a MilDot or another Mil based reticle such as IOR's MP-8 if you are planning to learn to rangefind with the reticle.

That Nikon is a pretty good scope, and naturally, there are other options as well.

This may be a bit above your price range, but one of the best tactical scopes for the money is IOR 2.5-10x42 with FFP reticle:

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/IOR2510X42TA/ior_2.5-10x 42_tactical_30mm_rifle_scope.htm

FFP reticle allows ranging or holdover estimation at any magnification since the reticle stays the same with respect to the target.

An awesome deal going right now is on discontinued Nikon Monarchs.  This 3.5-10x44 with MilDot for $269 is an amazing bagain and I would cal SWFA to see if it is still in stock:

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/6536/nikon_3.3-10x44_mon arch_ucc_riflescope.htm

Here is the same Nikon you saw on gunbroker, but cheaper through SWFA at $419:

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/6609/nikon_3.5-10x50_mon arch_ucc_riflescope.htm

I apologize for not being able to put in hotlinks for the web addresses.  This website has some incompatibility with my web browser.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2007 at 11:22
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Send pics of 40mm and Eo!!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2007 at 19:18
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OK I will take some pics and post em up.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2007 at 18:32
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IOR6X42T30 IOR 6x42 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope IOR 6x42 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • MP-8
  • 30mm
  • Free 2.5" Sun Shade w/ Purchase
SWFA: $499.95

Sorry but I really dont think you need a variable - what you need is a BRIGHT scope with a medium power magnification and good reliable tactical knobs. This scope will have your Tac Team Designated Marksmen drooling with envy even though their scopes cost twice as much. I had one of these next to my Leupold Mark 4 10x M3 scope and I was amazed at the quality of it.  6x is not such a high magnification as to not be able to engage your preditors and a 6x42 scope has a 7mm exit eye pupil (Very Bright). The 6x42 is not bulky and clusmy like larger scopes can be. The turrets are medium height with very positive clicks and screw on caps to protect them.  For a .223 the 400 yd distance is really pushing it because the bullet doesnt have much energy left after that so you dont need more power than a 6x.   A 6x at 600 yds would be like open sights at 100 yds so 300 yds would look like open sights at 50 yds.( sounds perfect to me )  One other thing - Badger Rings and Base if you can afford them.

Good Luck Brother

Stay Safe



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/08/2007 at 08:42
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

IOR6X42T30 IOR 6x42 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope IOR 6x42 Tactical 30mm Rifle Scope
  • Matte
  • MP-8
  • 30mm
  • Free 2.5" Sun Shade w/ Purchase
SWFA: $499.95

Sorry but I really dont think you need a variable - what you need is a BRIGHT scope with a medium power magnification and good reliable tactical knobs. This scope will have your Tac Team Designated Marksmen drooling with envy even though their scopes cost twice as much. I had one of these next to my Leupold Mark 4 10x M3 scope and I was amazed at the quality of it.  6x is not such a high magnification as to not be able to engage your preditors and a 6x42 scope has a 7mm exit eye pupil (Very Bright). The 6x42 is not bulky and clusmy like larger scopes can be. The turrets are medium height with very positive clicks and screw on caps to protect them.  For a .223 the 400 yd distance is really pushing it because the bullet doesnt have much energy left after that so you dont need more power than a 6x.   A 6x at 600 yds would be like open sights at 100 yds so 300 yds would look like open sights at 50 yds.( sounds perfect to me )  One other thing - Badger Rings and Base if you can afford them.

Good Luck Brother

Stay Safe

 

Thanks for sharing!  I'm strongly considering this scope.  I think you just put me over the edge .

 

Do you think it would work well on a deer rifle where shots are under 125yds where "LIGHT GATHERING ABILITY" is of upmost importance? 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/12/2007 at 19:09
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Does anyone have any opinion about this scope? http://www.swfa.com/pc-6855-218-nikon-35-10x50-monarch-ucc-r iflescope.aspx

 

Does this have red and green illumination?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/13/2007 at 00:06
Bighouse View Drop Down
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I looked at a Burris XTR tonight and it seems very nice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 01:58
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OK this might be a newbie question but I cant seem to find the answer. Looking at the IOR 2.5-10x42

can someone tell me the difference between the one that says First Focal Plane Reticle and the one that does not?

 

Thanks



Edited by Bighouse
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 07:54
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Originally posted by Bighouse Bighouse wrote:

 

OK this might be a newbie question but I cant seem to find the answer. Looking at the IOR 2.5-10x42

can someone tell me the difference between the one that says First Focal Plane Reticle and the one that does not?

 

Thanks



The difference between a first focal plane reticle (FFP) and a second focal plane reticle (SFP) has to do with what the reticle does when you zoom the riflescope.  An FFP reticle is always the same size relative to the target (i.e. on a mil-dot FFP reticle the dots are always 1 mil apart).  An SFP reticle always looks the same size to you, so it changes size relative to the target (i.e. on a mil-dot SFP reticle the dots are 1 mil apart at one magnification only).  If you have a 2.5-10x scope with a mil-dot SFP reticle that is calibrated at 10x, then the dots are 1 mil apart at 10x, but 2 mils apart at 5x and 4 mils apart at 2.5x.  FFP vs. SFP is a non-issue with a fixed power riflescope.

An FFP reticle allows you to range and holdover without worrying about zoom.  I think reticle size can be an issue, though.  An FFP reticle that is thick enough to be visible at low magnification and low light might be too thick for precise shooting at high magnification.  I will defer to others with more experience as to how much of a problem that really is.

God bless!
Wayne J.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 12:15
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The Nikon is a hunting scope not a tactical scope. If you are trying to save money go with a Super Sniper  fixed 10x scope and some good rings preferably Badger rings and base. If you can afford the 6x42 IOR buy it instead. You really do not need a variable power scope unless you are getting to magnifications in excess of 10x (a fixed 16 or 20 will go dark in lower light conditions but a variable can dial down the power to brighten it up) or are shooting at extremely close distances say under 50 yds. If most of your shooting is 100 and out then a 6x or a 10x will work and if it is from 50 to 100 and out then the 6x is a better choice than the 10x. There are advantages of staying with a fixed power 1. you quickly become used to how large certain things look at different distance.  2 it eleminates the FFP / RFP issue and eleminates the posibility of error in determining distance with RFP because you dont have it on the right power. 3. Fixed power scopes have fewer moving parts and therefore are less likely to break. When you start talking about a FFP scope you are talking about lots of money. If you absolutely must have a variable at a moderate price look at the Leupold Mark 4 PR

LEU56140 Leupold 4.5-14x40 Mark 4 PR 30mm Riflescope                 Leupold 4.5-14x40 Mark 4 PR 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Duplex
  • 30mm
  • Long Range
  • Side Focus
  • Target Knobs
SWFA: $699.95

More Info...

 

 

 



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 12:49
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Russian sniper rifles in WWII, depending on the version had either a 3.5x or 4x scopes.

Their later replacement, the Dragunov was, until recently, issued with a 4x24 POSP scope.

Generally, russian snipers believed their scopes to be sufficient for accurate fire at man-size targets out to about 800 yards and for head shots out to about 400 yards.

A police sniper's job can be a little more difficult since often enough  there may be a mix of good and bad guys in close proximity, so they may have to identify the target through the scope which requires a better picture.  However, with modern (much improved) optics I would think that a 6x42 of good quality (like the above mentioned IOR) would work very well.  However, I am not a LE, so I could certainly be wrong.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 13:01
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Sorry for straying off target but if you want to hear a fascinating sound bite for Russia's most famous WWII sniper, Vasily Zaitsev, go to this link.

 

http://www.notesofasniper.com/

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 15:27
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I am really not interested in a fixed power right now.

I will get with the two snipers that I will be shooting with and see what they think.

Thanks for all the input.

Right now I am leaning towards to IOR varibale power. I like the fact that it goes down to 2.5 power for close range stuff.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/23/2007 at 15:41
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The IOR will make a fine choice. Keep us posted.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/28/2007 at 22:40
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So which one would you reccomend first focal plane or second for someone like me who is just learning how to use the mil dots.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2007 at 15:18
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Bighouse,

    I don't think either will have advantages in learning how to mil targets.  Application wise the FFP is great because you can mil at any power.  I have a SFP Leupy M3 LR on my 700P and I'm in no hurry to replace it.  It pretty much stays on 10x other than when I used it for deer hunting.  I would prefer to buy any future scopes with FFP, when I bought the Leupy there were only expensive European brand ones way out of my price range.  There are now a few more affordable quality FFPs out there, but in the end it will be on what you're willing to spend...if you can afford a decent quality FFP that's great but I wouldn't lose any sleep if you can get a good deal on a quality SFP of some sort.  One of the best deals on a variable tactical scope has been the Tactical Nikons on the Samplelist, but most now are nikoplex without mildots.....I would definitely go with mildots but it sounds like you've already decided that as well.  For scoping a .223, I think the Monarch Mildot mentioned earlier on the Samplelist would be a sweet set up, given as flat as the .223 shoots and the relatively limited effective range (compared to larger calibers) you could zero at 200 yds or meters and use the dots for come-ups (or as earlier mentioned, go with a scope with a bdc reticle). 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2007 at 17:50
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One of IOR's HUGE advantages is it's use of the MP8 reticle.  It is very good for ranging and is easy to use.  On top of that, the IOR glass for your application(s) is excellent.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2007 at 11:58
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What about this Leupold for my .223? Is there any reason I wold not be happy with this model?

I found a pretty good deal on this scope used.

 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-3171-297-leupold-35-10x40-mark-4-lrt- 30mm-riflescope.aspx

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/30/2007 at 22:49
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I have an IOR/Valdada   CQB 3x25 mounted on my FAL good for 400 yards easily.  The CQB reticle is easy to learn and adapt to, quick acquizition and rangefinding.  Not the same as mil-dot reticle that you are looking for, but a nice option for the scenerio you call out.  Glass is superb.  Illuminated reticle is one of the best on the market IMO.  This scope started a bad optics habit for me.  I have a US Optics SN-3 on my M1A with the mil-dot.  As stated above in other posts, it does take some calculations to master.  Tis is great when you have a scenerio with a lot of time to set up and go through the motions.  Usually a lot further out then 400 yards.  The closer the target is, the less time you have to set up the shot and quick acquzition is needed. Bottom line....Practice practice practice!

      Just my 2 cents

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/31/2007 at 10:18
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Originally posted by Bighouse Bighouse wrote:

What about this Leupold for my .223? Is there any reason I wold not be happy with this model?

I found a pretty good deal on this scope used.

 

http://www.swfa.com/pc-3171-297-leupold-35-10x40-mark-4-lrt- 30mm-riflescope.aspx

This is quite typical of police sniper scopes and you would most likely be very happy with it. I will mention that the M1 knobs are quite large and have no protective cap covering them which is fine for a rifle that lives in a hard case and comes out only for SWAT team ops. The down side to the large knobs is that they catch on everything you go past tree branches etc (and those branches want to re-adjust your scope for you). 

 

The number one tactical scope in Law Enforcement is Leupold Mark 4 LRT  4.5-14x50.  (The best in the world is U.S. Optics SN3 or a S&B). The FFP scopes are prefered in some sniper schools since they mil at any power.    If you use a laser rangefinder the reticle is not as much of an issue and you could cut cost there. (Note: With a .223 you have to make a head shot and you want a bright optic that gathers lots of light.)

LEU54660 Leupold 4.5-14x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope               Leupold 4.5-14x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Duplex
  • 30mm
  • Long Range
  • Side Focus
  • M1 Target Knobs
  • Free Leupold Flip-Open Lens Covers
SWFA: $969.95
More Info...
  Note there are some fake ones out there beware of used scopes on e-bay.



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/31/2007 at 11:48
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The Burris XTR is nice, but for your use, I would strongly suggest the 6 x 42 IOR or the Super Sniper 10x.  Both would do what you need and eliminate the complexity of a non-FFP variable, which is the next step up.
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