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New guy looking for advice on a scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/09/2015 at 09:09
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Wow...nice group. Those damn Savages are sweet shooters. Which Savage do you have? Modified?

My .223 Bolt gun won't take a heavy bullet. My Bravo muddy AR loves the heavier bullets, with its 7 twist.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2015 at 02:11
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Wow...nice group. Those damn Savages are sweet shooters. Which Savage do you have? Modified?

My .223 Bolt gun won't take a heavy bullet. My Bravo muddy AR loves the heavier bullets, with its 7 twist.

Thanks.  It's the 11VT, 24" Varmint Barrel.  On it sits the Viper PST 6-24X.

Not modified.  It's an out of the box "Dicks Sporting goods special".  I think it was on sale for $499, I got another $50 off for applying for the Dicks credit card, and a $75 rebate from Savage.


The barrel is free floated from the factory, and it has an Accu-trigger.  That Accu-trigger is sweet too!


Here it is with yours truly.  We engaged steel targets out to 770 yds with it that day using Nosler 77 gr Custom Competition loads.  It was a bit cold though.  It snowed off and on while we were there.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2015 at 02:15
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Well, it doesn't want the image to come through even though I can see it in the preview.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2015 at 02:18
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Lets try this again.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2015 at 02:30
koshkin View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Joker Joker wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

A few comments.

When choosing a riflescope, figure out how much you want to spend.

If your budget is $300, get the 10x42 SS Classic and never look back.

If your budget is not fixed at $300 and you can spend a bit more without major life issues, perhaps you should spend a bit more.  That is for you to decide.

That out of the way, I have seen more SWFA SS scopes that most (honestly, outside of people who work for SWFA, I have seen more of these than just about anyone) and they track with boring consistency.  As a reviewer, I have a love/hate relationship with SWFA SS scopes: using them is a lot of fun, but writing about them really isn't.  They punch above their weight class and give me very little to nitpick on.

With fixed power Classic scopes, I think 10x is the sweetspot, although 12x is quite good as well.  16x and 20x have limited application.  6x is quite excellent as well, but is outside of this discussion.

On keeping 77 SMKs supersonic at 1000 yards:  
I am not sure what altitude you are at, but to have a snowball's chance in hell of doing that you have to be either above 5000ft altitude or really pushing your loads.  If you plan to push your handloads, I would strongly encourage you to that with a botlgun, not an AR.  Handloading ARs hot, is asking for trouble.

With 5.56 pressures, I had the most consistent performance at max load with Ramshot TAC and that got me about 2800fps in a 20 inch barrel, so if you are lucky and you got a fast barrel, you might get around 2860-2900 out of a 24" tube.

ILya

Thanks for responding to my thread.  I've read your other forum/website, and was definitely interested to hear what you had to say on the matter.


As far as reaching out to 1,000 yards with the 5.56 AR15, I know it will be close, but I think it might be doable, even at sea level.  These particular bullets are the new tipped Sierra Match Kings, and have a bit higher (.420) B.C.  than the standard Match Kings.  I am getting around 2,600 FPS from the regular Match Kings out of my BHW 18" barrel, and I had hoped I'd get another 150 or so FPS out of the longer barrel.


One thing you had mentioned puzzled me though.  The 5.56 is supposed to support the higher pressures.  If so, how would a .223 bolt gun be able to push them faster?


Thanks!


Boltguns are inherently stronger and if you exceed recommended pressure by a significant margin, it is better to do it in a boltgun.

As far as 5.56 vs 223 discussion goes, that is just a difference in chamber configuration.  You can have a boltgun chambered for 5.56.  Either way, if you intend to stay within the recommended pressures, it does not matter.

Tipped SMK will indeed make it easier, but the G1 BC is 0.42 only above 2400fps.  If you do a TOF weighted average out to 1000yards, the effective BC is somewhere around 0.396 or thereabouts.  That is still pretty good.  However, to stay supersonic at sea level at 1000 yards, you ahve to be launching them at a bit over 2900fps.  While possible, that may be pushing it a touch.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2015 at 02:35
Joker View Drop Down
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by Joker Joker wrote:

Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

A few comments.

When choosing a riflescope, figure out how much you want to spend.

If your budget is $300, get the 10x42 SS Classic and never look back.

If your budget is not fixed at $300 and you can spend a bit more without major life issues, perhaps you should spend a bit more.  That is for you to decide.

That out of the way, I have seen more SWFA SS scopes that most (honestly, outside of people who work for SWFA, I have seen more of these than just about anyone) and they track with boring consistency.  As a reviewer, I have a love/hate relationship with SWFA SS scopes: using them is a lot of fun, but writing about them really isn't.  They punch above their weight class and give me very little to nitpick on.

With fixed power Classic scopes, I think 10x is the sweetspot, although 12x is quite good as well.  16x and 20x have limited application.  6x is quite excellent as well, but is outside of this discussion.

On keeping 77 SMKs supersonic at 1000 yards:  
I am not sure what altitude you are at, but to have a snowball's chance in hell of doing that you have to be either above 5000ft altitude or really pushing your loads.  If you plan to push your handloads, I would strongly encourage you to that with a botlgun, not an AR.  Handloading ARs hot, is asking for trouble.

With 5.56 pressures, I had the most consistent performance at max load with Ramshot TAC and that got me about 2800fps in a 20 inch barrel, so if you are lucky and you got a fast barrel, you might get around 2860-2900 out of a 24" tube.

ILya

Thanks for responding to my thread.  I've read your other forum/website, and was definitely interested to hear what you had to say on the matter.


As far as reaching out to 1,000 yards with the 5.56 AR15, I know it will be close, but I think it might be doable, even at sea level.  These particular bullets are the new tipped Sierra Match Kings, and have a bit higher (.420) B.C.  than the standard Match Kings.  I am getting around 2,600 FPS from the regular Match Kings out of my BHW 18" barrel, and I had hoped I'd get another 150 or so FPS out of the longer barrel.


One thing you had mentioned puzzled me though.  The 5.56 is supposed to support the higher pressures.  If so, how would a .223 bolt gun be able to push them faster?


Thanks!


Boltguns are inherently stronger and if you exceed recommended pressure by a significant margin, it is better to do it in a boltgun.

As far as 5.56 vs 223 discussion goes, that is just a difference in chamber configuration.  You can have a boltgun chambered for 5.56.  Either way, if you intend to stay within the recommended pressures, it does not matter.

Tipped SMK will indeed make it easier, but the G1 BC is 0.42 only above 2400fps.  If you do a TOF weighted average out to 1000yards, the effective BC is somewhere around 0.396 or thereabouts.  That is still pretty good.  However, to stay supersonic at sea level at 1000 yards, you ahve to be launching them at a bit over 2900fps.  While possible, that may be pushing it a touch.

ILya

Thanks for the clarification.  Makes sense when you put it that way. I don't push the pressures too much.  If I see pressure signs I'll stop there or back down.  My goal is not to blow anything up, but to find an accurate node near the top end if possible.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2015 at 03:02
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Cool. Thanks for the pictures. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2015 at 09:33
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I didn't really see a lot of comments on tracking out at 1000 yards, but let me tell you the SS scopes track perfect for me.  I have a 3-15 sitting on a 6.5 Grendel that has shot more than one LR competition and lot and lots of PDs at ranges from 10 yards to 1200 yard, and it tracks perfectly and repeatably.  

I also have a 5-20 sitting on my desert tech that i run both a 338 Lapua and a 260 Rem barrel on.  I have had the 338 out to 2500 yards with no tracking problems and returned to 0 perfectly and back out to any range I wanted.  Same with the 260 barrel, but only out to about 2000 on that one once, but repeatedly to 1200 with no issues.

I can assure you that any of the SS scopes will track fine out to any distance.

If you want to stay in that $300 range, get the 10x.  If you are willing to spend a little more, I highly recommend the 3-15.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/10/2015 at 11:24
Joker View Drop Down
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Originally posted by helo18 helo18 wrote:

I didn't really see a lot of comments on tracking out at 1000 yards, but let me tell you the SS scopes track perfect for me.  I have a 3-15 sitting on a 6.5 Grendel that has shot more than one LR competition and lot and lots of PDs at ranges from 10 yards to 1200 yard, and it tracks perfectly and repeatably.  

I also have a 5-20 sitting on my desert tech that i run both a 338 Lapua and a 260 Rem barrel on.  I have had the 338 out to 2500 yards with no tracking problems and returned to 0 perfectly and back out to any range I wanted.  Same with the 260 barrel, but only out to about 2000 on that one once, but repeatedly to 1200 with no issues.

I can assure you that any of the SS scopes will track fine out to any distance.

If you want to stay in that $300 range, get the 10x.  If you are willing to spend a little more, I highly recommend the 3-15.


Thanks for your input.  Seems like ALL of the SWFA SS line do a knock out job of tracking!  That is the main reason I am looking to get one.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/24/2015 at 17:15
Joker View Drop Down
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Now I'm just waiting on the Black Friday sale to see what the prices are on the 3-15 and fixed power SS scopes.
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