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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2006 at 08:53
Trykon View Drop Down
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Purchased a new gun today and i hope it will be a good one.  I've been wanting an Ultra Mag for some time now and finally broke down and bought one.  Purchased a 7mm Ultra Mag Remington Sendero SF.  I'm shooting factory ammo right now but plan to hand load some Hornady 139gr Interbonds next week.  A friend of mine has the same gun shooting 139gr Interbonds shooting 3800 ftps!!!  I'll post some pics tomorrow hopefully.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2006 at 17:07
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Is it the Sendero II or an older model??

 

My Sendero SF .300 RUM shot very well for me. Great rifle.

 

They claim those Ultra Mags's are barrel  burners.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2006 at 17:26
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Fortunately for you guys, there are alot of myths that float around, at least about the Weatherbys, specifically the 30-378, being barrel burners, lasting only 1000 rounds and I will bet this is true for these Remington rounds.  I have read many posts on other sites, spoken to many gunsmiths who specialize in these heavy hitters and talked directly to the gunsmiths at Weatherby and this just is not true.  It usually comes from either people who are ill informed, jealous they do not have such a rifle or did have one and shot the barrel out by shooting a hundred rounds at a time without letting it cool whatsoever.  There are plenty of people who have gotten 5000 rounds out of a 30-378 with continued excellent accuracy and again, I will bet the same for the 300 RUM.  The metalurgy these days is much improved, as compared to even 10 years ago and Weatherby as well as Remington produce great rifles.  I own both and have put many rounds through many rifles, to include my Remington 742 BDL Deluxe 30-06, that I received from Santa Claus, when I was 12 years old and is now in its 36th year and shoots like a dream.  And one more thing, I really do not intend, putting that many rounds through my 30-378, as it is a pure hunting rifle.  But, maybe, some guys, like to shoot canons at the range, just for fun.  Great gun and great caliber, have fun and good hunting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2006 at 17:32
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Right.

 

I'm not saying they do burn throats up, Dolphin. I'm saying it's been said. 

 

I don't remember the round count in my .300 RUM, but I would say around 700-800 or so.

No problems.

Just went broke buying RL 25 powder.....

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2006 at 17:46
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Right Sendero SF II.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2006 at 17:50
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Hand loading is almost madatory for those UM's.

Not much factory stuff out there, I wouldn't think. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2006 at 18:11
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Dolphin, I'm curious as to why someone would be "jealous" regarding ownership of Weatherby/Ultramags. I didn't know there was some prestige, hard to get or ranking order claimed to admission. How long have I been sleeping, what year is it???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2006 at 19:14
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Well, first of all, I am not saying that you cannot afford a Weatherby.  But, there are alot of people out there, who cannot and therefore alot of criticism is thrown there way.  So, if I offended anybody, that was not my intention.  Now, on the other hand, they are not inexpensive rifles and in my opinion, having owned just about every hunting rifle around, they are the best built non-custom or custom rifle there is to be had on the planet.  Buy all the HS precision or other so called precision rifles you want and you just are not going to beat them.  That is what Roy Weatherby wanted.  He was a pioneer, and inventor and just an all around good guy, who loved hunting and believed there was an alternative to the slow, heavy projectiles that were standard at that time.  Yes, there are plenty of people who are jealous of other people owning a Wby., just like they are jealous of people of owning other expensive semi-custom and custom rifles and they are willing to put their ignorance on the line to show that jealousy.  So lighten us Finn master, no buddy is busting your balls about not owning a Wby., that is if you do not.  I do not think anything less of you.  I own plenty of great branded rifles and I am sure you do to.  I just love Weatherbys.  If you do not own one, buy one in a wooden stock and enjoy the beauty, the mystique and the accuracy, not to speak of the huntability.  There are PHs around the globe, who have used  wooden stocked Wbys., to hunt game for years and when finished the stocks were sorely worn.  Thats what Roy Weatherby would have wanted.  Relax and be self confident.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2006 at 19:40
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I looked a purchasing a friend of mine 30-378 Wby but didn't because of the obvious abuse of the gun.  The barrel was scratched and worn and the stock was too.  I know some people would say who cares, but for me i take extremely good care of my rifles.  I have some rifles that are more than 10 years old and still look brand new, and it's not becuase they haven't been used becuase they're used quite regularly.  I will agree that the 30-378 Wby is a fine gun but i wasn't going to spend the extra 600-700 to purchase a new one.  The 7mm Ultra Mag i purchased shot just as good of a group at the wby at any range we shot.  But, I wouldn't i wont disagree with you Dolphin about wby's being fine guns.  Just wasn't what i was looking for at the time. Plus the ammo is so high for a wby 30-378, but it's extremely powerfull.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/15/2006 at 19:55
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Actually, I was referring to the chambering rather than the rifle. Unless I misunderstood, I thought the context was about barrel life. I think Weatherby rifles are probably amoung the finest along with Sako's (75 &85)that is, available. I also like Kimber's but some might not regard them as "production" rifles. Of the many flaws yet uncovered, self confidence is alive and well. Just ask the ex-wife.  I think you and I share similar insight. Like the Elite 4200 riflescope. You can spend a heck of alot more and not get a whole lot better. Kinda why I like the Remmy 700 also.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2006 at 06:35
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I believe from that perspective, of buying the Elite scopes instead of those ridiculous euro nosebleeders and saving alot of money, it does make sense to buy a Remington or other favorite brand instead of a Wby that will shoot just as well and save the money, say for the Elite.  I love my Remingtons, Rugers, Savages and Parker Hales and most of all my Howas.  Talk about a great shooting rifle for a dirt cheap price.  Howa, makes the Vanguard series for Wby.  And for all intent purposes they shoot as well as the Wby.  So, I agree with you on that, but I still love um.  But, unlike those euro nosebleeder scope owners, they won't tell you anything else, but you have to have that 1000 dollar scope or you are going to miss that trophy buck for sure.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2006 at 07:06
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ok here's my 2 cents on rifles.

 

i have had remingtons, wby's, and a handful of other makes.

 

by far the best performance i have run accross was sako - without a doubt.

 

i JUST purchased a Tikka (made by sako) and it is the smoothest bolt actions around. with a fantastic factory trigger.

you can get those for around 500-600 all day long.  they are guaranteed tackdrivers out of the box.  I honestly haven't been

enamored w/ the wby's i have had in my hands (NOT the highend ones, probably).  The T3 by tikka is one of the best rifles

on the market out of the box and is the 'elite 4200' of the rifle world.  I have felt 100 dollar replacement triggers that aren't this

good.  I would highly recommend these for ANYONE looking at most any caliber. 

 

happy hunting.

 

J

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2006 at 08:54
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Sako, uh.  Would take the Wby Vanguard series all day long at 400 bucks, guaranteed 1and half MOA at hundred yards and if you read most of the reviews, much better, right out of the box.  No more eurotrash for me.  American or Japanese.  I refuse to pay for the exorbitant labor prices of european labor workers, especially when the Japanese have such pride in their workmanship.  Plus, I can use the extra savings to mount a Bushnell Elite scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2006 at 11:57
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well, my tikka T3 is 1 moa out of the box guaranteed - or your money back.

and i have shot a three shot group @ 100 you can cover with a nickel w/ my sako 30.06 w/ factory ammo.

tikka uses sako barrels some of the finest production barrels on the planet.

 

i haven't seen or heard much better than that.  now, Dolphin, i AM speaking from experience here.  I had a

vanguard in a 270, that didn't like any ammunition i fed it.  hard trigger w/ lots of play. night and day from the

T3.

 

Try a T3 ...... you'll change your tune.

 

J

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2006 at 12:11
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Tikka  is a much better rifle than the Vanguard in every way and it will not break the bank.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2006 at 15:29
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Originally posted by jonbravado jonbravado wrote:

by far the best performance i have run accross was sako - without a doubt.

 

Preach on the Sako!!

 

 

The Vanguard that I shot was a .300 Weatherby, had the crappiest trigger, and was VERY rough around the edges. All the edges!

I was very underwhelmed, to say the least. 

 

Tikkas are great shooters and I have not seen any accuracy or quality problems from them.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2006 at 21:51
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Here we go again with this euro trash rhetoric.  I have serveral Howas and an older Vanguard.  No creep, crisp triggers and excellent shooters.  All the reviews in the gun magazine rate them very highly.  I have shot and handled a buddies Sako, I believe 85 and would not trade the Vanguard in a minute.  None of mine are rough around the edges, except for maybe the synthetic stock, which, I have never seen one that was perfect.  The bolt is smooth and I have never had any misfires.  This is a case of mystique over common sense.  Sort of like, buying a Zeiss over an Elite.  Plus the basic Vanguard is cheaper.  Most reviews, the MOA at less than 0.5, with the right ammo, so I would do some research on why you cannot get yours to shoot right, like maybe, you are inherently inaccurate.  I know, you are going to say, you can shoot your other rifles to this level of accuracy.  But, maybe the Vanguard, does not fit you well.  I would take my Remingtons, Savages, Rugers, Parker Hales and Interarms, before the eurotrash.  And, who says, Sako, makes some of the best barrels around.  Now, I am not going to say Sakos/Tikkas are bad rifles, they are good rifles.  But, when people starting talking about creep, rough finish etc., its speaks of a lot of bull, when comparing it a Wby Vanguard.  Read the reviews, handle more than a few.  Don't be automatically biased, because you love your Tikka.  If you want to see a rough looking brand new rifle, look at a basic savage varminter and compare it to your Tikka or Vanguard.  But, it shoots well also.  Or look at a Mossberg ATR.  I have been aroung bolt actions since I was 10 years old and have heard it all, starting with the shotgun mysterey of the Browning Auto 5 being superior to the Remington1100.  Different story, but with shotguns.  Tikka has always been a poor mans Sako and up until recently Vanguard was a poor mans Wby.  But, Wby has upscale the Vanguard line from top to bottom, to include customization and SUBMOA guarantees.  In fact, give me a Sig Sauer SHR 970 with interchangeable barrels instead.  I could thing of multiple other guns that the Tikka, but you know.  I might just buy one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/16/2006 at 22:09
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Two more things that I left out.  Novices or the ill informed, frequently mistake creep in a trigger for play.  A certain amount of creep in a trigger is desirable.  For example.  I have a Wby 300 MarkV Deluxe, purchase used and the previous owner had the trigger adjusted to a feather weight touch, with no creep whatsoever.  I really do not like this, as I have no gauge as to slowly pull the trigger, hold on the target and take the proper breaths, before bang the thing shoots.  I have another uses Wby, never shot before, actually handled by the man himself, Roy Weatherby, that was also adjusted.  Not quite as light, but the same scenario.  However, my Wby Accumark 30-378 has just the proper amount of creep, so that if I want to abort the shoot, I have time, but with still a 2.5 pound trigger pull.  Perfectly proper.  Same with my Vanguards.  As far as SVD666's comments, as I have already said, the basic Vanguard, even in SS, can be had for less that the Tikkas, albeit in Synthetic stocks and come in some Wby calibers, that I personally prefer, as well as a host of other non-Wby calibers.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 03:26
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Originally posted by Dolphin Dolphin wrote:

Two more things that I left out.  Novices or the ill informed, frequently mistake creep in a trigger for play. 

 

Are you referring to me as ill informed and or a novice, Sir??

(If you say "yes", or "if the shoe fits", I'm going to hold my breath and you'll be sorry!!!)

 

 

Relax, Dolphin...Maybe the Vanguard I shot was a lemon. (Shrug)

It was rusting and the guy didn't take very good care of it, to be sure.

 

I'd still take a Sako over a real Weatherby any day of the week.

Weatherbys are overrated and overpriced, in this novices opinion anway......

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 06:43
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Now, cheaptrick, by now you know me better than that, I of course was not referring to you.  Your credentials are well substantiated.  And I agree, Sako is a fine rifle, no doubt about it.  The only Sako I handled was the one I mentioned and is a fine rifle, but did not match the quality of my Wbys, but then again, like you said, it was like you having handled the only Vanguard that was rusty.  This gun was in good shape, but maybe me too, was swayed by loyalty to the Wby brand.  I grew up as a kid just staring at those pictures, hoping to own one, now I own a few and they have never let me down.  And I will say one thing.  Kudos to the Wby company.  I have called them many times to ask questions and have alway been treated with respect and had my ears talked off like they had all the time in the world.  When, the tech support people were not readily available, since it is a small company, the lady who answers the phone, will always give me a 1-800 number to call back and eveytime and get who I need.  I have talked to the gunsmiths, tech support people, custom shop gunsmiths and parts people and all treated me with respect and never hurried the conversation and acted as though, I was the only problem there was at the time and as I said, I think I could still be on the phone with most of them.  In addition,  I bought my 30-378 used with only 50 rounds through it and thought I did not get the Accubrake wrench (turns out I really did).  Regardless, I called Wby and they are sending me another one free of charge and even no cost for shipping.  That is service you do not see these days and is another reason, I have been so loyal to Wby.  I have tried contacting other companies and while finally reaching them, I was hurried along and it was as if I was a burden and wasting their time.  I have never tried contacting Sako.  So, in a nutshell, sorry cheaptrick, my comment were not directed to you, you have my utmost 

regard and trust when it comes to recommendations, given your obvious experience and knowlege.  We all have our opinions, but the other poster, seemed to place emotion over logic.  Please accept my apology and consider my post.  Thanks.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 11:50
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Thanks for the kind words, Dolphin.

Your very kind to say those things, but just because I say something doesn't make it "The Gospel" either.

 

I know a ton of Weatherby guys that won't have anything but one of Roy W.'s work.

Their almost like a cult. 

I never really warmed up to them, but hey, that's why they make chocolate and vanilla.

Some of those rifles are flat gorgeous!!

 

The Vanguard I shot, just came back from a Canadian black bear hunt and looked like it had been drug all the way back to NC from there.

I reprimanded the hunter for letting it get like that too.

Not a real good sample.

 

I too have read good reviews of the Vanguard and handled a few more at Walmart.

 

I have seen more than a few Tikkas that would shoot sub moa 3 shot groups with factory ammo.  

I don't like the plastic detachable magazine on them though........

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 12:34
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Hmm.

Perhaps I am a misinformed novice or just downright stupid (presumably, if you disagree with Dolphin you are either one or the other), but I've played with my share of Howas, both labeled as Vanguard and as Howa, and they are decent rifles, though largely unexceptional rifles.  Some are a little rougher than others, but they are OK allround.  Having said that, I'll take a Tikka or a Savage over Howa any day.

I do not have enough experience with the higher end Weatherbys to have an opinon, but since I generally avoid any cartridge with the words: super, duper, ultra, mega and magnum in the name, I will probably never know.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 12:40
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You know, I did not know that had a plastic detachable magazine.  The Walmarts around here carry squat.  And if you ask them to order something, its like you are looking at an alien.  A couple X-mas' ago, I ordered a nice Savage heavy fluted barrel 223 in a synthetic stock SS for my son as his Santa Claus so to speak and another rifle for my future son-in-law.  My son's rifle came in on time in 1 week.  2 months later, I finally had to go to Walmart, only to find out the order was cancelled, despite me calling every other day.  I got so frustrated and just said pick one out of the carousel and he took the Vanguard 300 Wby mag.  He still has not mounted a scope or shot it yet.  Despite that, it takes 2 hours to get out of the damn store.  And if you have not ordered from them, they have to put the rifle in the lay away area.  I told them I would pay up front the total price, but I could not do that, I could pay everything less one penny.  I try to buy online only, unless I find a great deal elsewhere.  Oh well.  I am heading out to the range to finish sighting some rifles.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 12:54
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Well koshkin, Roy Weatherby was a true pioneer.  He went against the grain, many years before these other so called super duper cartridges.  He went against the heavy slow moving projectile to faster moving, harder hitting bullets that eventually were just as heavy as anything else.  So to compare him and his renowned cartridges to these newcomers is not fair.  These newcomers are doing for simply one reason.  New cartridges, mean new rifles chambered for those cartridges, which means more rifles sales and in turn more sales of cartridges.  Wby has not introduced a new caliber in years.  The newest, was the 30-378, which really is not new, but just added to their line up.  It was developed in 1969, as a contract from the US government.  It was not adopted over the 308, due to the expensive of replacing all of the armament, not to speak of the fact, every other government still used the 308 and ammo was plentiful and cheap and it was still an excellent caliber.  Now, to the quality of Howa.  While their stocks are not impeccable, their mechanics are a beauty, smooth and silky with a good stock trigger.  They can be purchased for half of what a Tikka can be had for and I would still take the Howa and put more money into a good quality scope, because that counts as much or more than the rifle, escpecially, when my Howas shoot 1 MOA at 100 yards which is more than adequate for any hunter.  Any less is overkill.  But, If you like a Tikka, then as I have always said, buy what you like and be happy.  Thats why there are so many gun makers out there.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/17/2006 at 13:10
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Howa for half of the price of a Tikka?  That's a new development, for sure.  I've seen Tikka T3s around for under $600. 

If you can find me a place where I can buy a Howa for under $300, I'll get one.  My biggest complaint with Howas is that the triggers have been spotty in my experience, but if the rifle is $300 I'll stoop to tuning the trigger.

As for the cartridges, I do not care when it was invented.  I see no compelling reason (for me) to own anything with that kind of kick and muzzle blast.  I am a firm believer that shot placement and bullet design are far more important than extracting extra 200fps out of a cartridge.  Then again, I am not going to take shot at anything other than a paper or metal target beyond 300 yards.

Then again, I must be a not too bright and ill-informed novice.

ILya
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