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Need some advice |
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cidme ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() Joined: April/24/2008 Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Just out of curiousity what makes the 3-9 a poor choice? Is that too much magnification or is there another prob? |
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supertool73 ![]() Optics God ![]() ![]() Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Location: Utah Status: Online Points: 10476 |
I have used 3-9x and 4x fixed scopes my whole life and have never not been fast enough. I have had charging elk coming out to the trees 30 yards from me and easily had plenty of time to pull up and make the hit with a 3x, it more about the shooter than the gear. Unless I was hunting dangerous game I would always pick a 3-9x over a lower magnification. I think it is the perfect magnification for virtually all north american game.
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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pyro6999 ![]() Optics Retard ![]() ![]() OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
put me on that train too! 4x seems like a stretch when you want to take that 400yd shot, its nice to be able to go to 6-8x if you really need the extra confidence. if your dad sits in a stand all season long and doesnt have any chance whatsoever to make a longer shot then go for a 1x4 or 1x6.
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Big Squeeze ![]() Optics Master Extraordinaire ![]() ![]() GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
Here`s why......Simply put, your fixed 4x, any fixed 4x and all 3x9`s (except the 3x9 Trijicon), require the non-aiming eye to remain closed in order to acquire the target through the scope. In that case, the signal to the human brain with only one eye open is always slower which increases reaction time, acquisition time to the target, which in turn increases the time to the shot.
In other words, both eyes open acquiring and aiming with a wider FOV, is always faster than the conventional way of one aiming eye open looking through the scope, while the other eye is closed..........It is a matter of brain physiology not in your control nor mine.
With one eye open and one closed, whatever the speed or quickness one has mastered with a fixed 4x or with a 3x9, will always be trumped or bettered with a scope which has both eyes open acquiring capabilities. The human brain says so! Not me!
Within a 100 yards, regardless of terrain, dangerous game or non dangerous game, charging or otherwise, I`ll take a 1x to a 1.5 (wider FOV) to 5x anytime over a fixed 4x or a 3x9. And set on the 5x, I`ll still have the capability for a 400-500 yard plains shot should I have the need for a long precision shot.
I`ve hunted with fixed 4x`s and 3x9`s for years in closer cover and at the shorter ranges and like them. But for the above reasons, the lower variables are simply better.
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supertool73 ![]() Optics God ![]() ![]() Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Location: Utah Status: Online Points: 10476 |
I use a 1x every season squeeze for muzzleloading, it is not any faster than my 3x for hunting distances. It is not the power that makes the bindon aiming concept work. It is the fact that your dominant eye is on the same side as your firing hand. I use both eyes open with my 4x IOR on my AR all the time, it is all about training. If my hunting took place within 15 or 20 yards then I would totally agree with you. But how often does that really happen? 3x is plenty low. In fact I prefer having a little magnification for 40 to 50 yard shots anyway. I have always prefered using my 3 and 4x scopes over my 1x muzzleloader scopes.
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Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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cidme ![]() Optics GrassHopper ![]() Joined: April/24/2008 Status: Offline Points: 29 |
Thanks for all th input guys. I think your on the money with Dad's train off thought Squeeze. He is more of a stalk in hunt type. But my second question about the vortex, I see I left out the link. sorry here it is
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Big Squeeze ![]() Optics Master Extraordinaire ![]() ![]() GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
Immediately after I got my new 1.5-5x20 VX3 and mounted it up and started practicing, there was an immediate difference. What I can now do with my 2.5-8x28 Nikon Monarch EER and VX3, I could never do with the others I`ve owned, let alone friend`s 4`s & 3x9`s.
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Sparky ![]() Optics Master Extraordinaire ![]() Joined: July/15/2007 Location: SD Status: Offline Points: 3680 |
What is different about the Trijicon 3x9? And is what you are saying true just at 3x or all the way to 9x? |
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Big Squeeze ![]() Optics Master Extraordinaire ![]() ![]() GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
Price points are always a good indicator of quality.
The Vortex has the right magnification, has very good eye relief specs and the FOV while not the best, is still good. I`m not familiar with this scope`s optical quality, but chances are, based on the price difference, it is very likely that its optics are not as good or as resolute as the 1-4x20 VX2.
This scope`s weight lists at 14 oz!! Very weighty for a low powered variable. The VX2 is 9 oz. or 35% lighter. Every ounce counts when climbing or hiking.
It will probably work just fine. Its a matter of personal priorities and preferences that your dad is looking for. But I`ll say that between the Vortex and the Leupy, I`d rather take the Leupy even with the increased price.
If your dad is the stalk and hunt type as you state, all the more reason for the quicker lower variable. Within a 100 yards, they can`t be beat!
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Big Squeeze ![]() Optics Master Extraordinaire ![]() ![]() GOOGLE NINJA Joined: August/30/2007 Location: Anaheim, Calif. Status: Offline Points: 3143 |
What seperates the Trijicon from all other 3x9`s are the same reasons I listed earlier in this thread with regard to both eyes open aiming capability and the fact that the human brain reacts quicker to a both eyes open system rather than aiming conventional way. A glowing Tritium reticle is even quicker still.
I personally havent tried the 3x9 Trijicon while on the 9x, but have tried one set on the 3x and 4x. It does exactly as advertised set on the lower powers.
In case of surprises and charging game, faster acquisition and aiming shots are always at the shorter distances. So, set on the 5x and above for longer range precision shooting, I`m not interested whether or not I have both eyes open capabilities, because that isn`t necessary.
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supertool73 ![]() Optics God ![]() ![]() Superstool Joined: January/03/2008 Location: Utah Status: Online Points: 10476 |
The bindon aiming concept is not really a trijicon invention. They have just kind of marketed it as their own. Like I said before it will work with any scope as long as your dominant eye and firing are the same side. Granted the bright reticle certainly helps in the speed though. But any red dot or reticle with a horseshoe type reticle works very well with it also.
Also I really don't see the need for both eyes open shooting for longer distances anyway. I can see it for really close in stuff like 25 yards and under it is helpful if your target is moving and especially if you are moving as well. But for beyond that there is no need for it. Especially 50 and beyond. All the time I spend training with the AR 15 in tactical simulators and stuff once you get beyond 50 or so yards it becomes more about precision and you will always be able to be more precise by closing the one eye and focusing on your sight alone. |
Lifetime warranty and excellent customer service don't mean a thing when your gun fails during a zombie attack.
"A Liberal is a person who will give away everything they don't own." |
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Kickboxer ![]() MODERATOR ![]() ![]() Moderator Joined: February/13/2008 Status: Online Points: 19534 |
What is x-mas??
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Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.
There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living |
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pyro6999 ![]() Optics Retard ![]() ![]() OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
your joking right kb??
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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bbush ![]() Optics Apprentice ![]() Joined: October/12/2008 Location: Mississippi Status: Offline Points: 82 |
The 3-9x is the most popular scope for a reason..it simply is the best magnification for the average hunter. If I was going to buy a scope for anyone, I would pick a 3-9x because it allows the user to shoot short and far distances (200-250 yards) well. I am like someone earlier said, I like a little magnification even at 40 to 50 yards.
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Ed Connelly ![]() Optics Retard ![]() ![]() God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24220 |
you're BOTH joking, right?? [I love you guys!!!
![]() this is better than THE TEE-VEE!!
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pyro6999 ![]() Optics Retard ![]() ![]() OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
ed connelly king of the boob tube!
get back to trippin pipe rough neck!
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Ed Connelly ![]() Optics Retard ![]() ![]() God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24220 |
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pyro6999 ![]() Optics Retard ![]() ![]() OT TITAN Joined: December/22/2006 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 22034 |
im so mean to you edyou probably spent more time on the floor than in the derrick
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They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead" 343 we will never forget God Bless Chris Ledoux "good ride cowboy" |
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Ed Connelly ![]() Optics Retard ![]() ![]() God of no Chihuahua Joined: December/16/2007 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 24220 |
I spent all my time on the pits or horsing around in the mud room. Years ago, back when we lived in America, one could walk a little ways away from the rig and shoot a 22 pistol to amuse oneself.
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