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need scope model suggestions

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2015 at 09:50
bhsmith352 View Drop Down
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I am brand new at this, so forgive me if I say anything obviously dumb. I am looking to put an optic on a brand new FN SCAR 17.  My budget is unlimited for the optic, because it's an investment.  I want to buy the right optic the first time, and I'll never have to worry about it again.

I want something that I can take long-range courses with, but still shoot up close with fast.  I was hoping for one in FFP where the reticle when 'zoomed out' will be illuminated bright and used as a fast aiming system, but when 'zoomed in' would expand into a useable mil-dot type reticle.

Think "DMR" when you are thinking about this optic.  I want it to be a fully capable rifle for 'normal' within 100 yard engagements, but also be able to set it on a sandbag and punch paper at 800 yards.

Requirements:

Budget- unlimited.

Magnification range- the lowest end can't be any higher than 3.5 or so.  Maybe 4. The high end of the range must be 10 or over.  Higher is even better. So a 3-9 is no good, but a 2-12 would be great!  A 5-25 is too high on the low end.  It would be nice if it had a very large range, like the bushnell elete tactical 3.5-21.  I want it to be useable in a closer quarters shot but still give me target ID and clarity at distance.

Focal Plane- First Focal Plane

Tube Diameter- I'm not super worked up about it.  30mm would be fine.

Objective Size- Again, not super worried about it.  Whatever size.

Paralax- it would be great if it had a side-paralax adjusting knob.

Illumination-  Daylight visible illumination (very bright preffered).

Reticle- when zoomed in, needs to have a good useable mil-dot reticle. I think something like this:  http://i.imgur.com/vFPjK.png might be good as it gives a 'aiming dot' that's illuminated on low magnification and is a useable mil-based reticle on higher magnification.

Turrets- I'd prefer something like the turrets in the bushnell elete tactical 3.5-21, where they are locked until you pull them up to adjust them. It will be used in the field, so free-turning turrets that can get bumped and turned while climbing fences, crossing creeks, and crawling are not good.  Zero-stop would be nice.

Adjustment Range- needs to have enough elevation adjustment to shoot out to 1000 without guessing and without putting on a 20 moa scope mount.

Weight/Size- Obviously, smaller is preffered, given the same capabilities.  This will be a carried rifle, so if I can avoid slapping on a 2 pound scope that would be great, but not the end of the world.

Any suggestions that meet the criteria would be welcomed.  Again, don't worry about price, just the best possible optic for this role. 

 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2015 at 09:53
bhsmith352 View Drop Down
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also forgot that the adjustments need to be in mils, and be VERY repeatable and accurate.  I want to set zero, do a box drill, have it be at zero, then crank it all the way to the extremes of the elevation and windage, then return it to zero and have the same point of impact. 

Also, I forgot to mention this- it has to be rugged.  Like, drop the rifle on accident while climbing over a creek and the optic bounces off a rock and falls in the water, and pick it up and drive on rugged.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2015 at 10:52
stork23raz View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2015 at 18:45
koshkin View Drop Down
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For up close, you should be looking at setting up a small red-dot at a 45 degree angle.  It adds very little weight and extends your capability by a fair bit.

As far as magnified scopes go, the lightest high end scope that would work for you is Leupold Mark 6 3-18x44.  It is the smallest of the bunch by a solid margin.

I am currently working on an article with the following scopes, so I have had them side by side:


Nightforce ATACR F1 4-16x42

Leupold Mark 6 3-18x44

Steiner T5Xi 3-15x50

Vortex Razor HD Gen 2 3-18x50

Minox ZP5 3-15x50

Tangent Theta TT315M

3-15x50

Kahles K312i 3-12x50

Length, in

12.6

11.9

13.1

14.4

13.6

13.8

14.8

Weight, oz

30

23.6

29.8

46.5

32.5

27.7

29.5

Main Tube Diameter

34mm

34mm

34mm

34mm

34mm

30mm

34mm

Eye Relief, in

3.35 - 3.54

3.8 - 3.9

3.5 - 4.3

3.7

3.54

3.54

3.54

FOV, ft@1000yards

26.9 - 6.9

11.04@10x

36.8 - 6.3

11.34@10x

36 - 7.3

10.95@10x

37.8 - 6.25

11.25@10x

38.4 - 8.1

12.15@10x

38.4 - 8.1

12.15@10x

33.3 - 10

12@10x

Exit Pupil, mm

10.3 - 2.7


12 - 3.4


11.5 - 3.5

11.5 - 3.5

9.7 - 4.2

Click Value

0.1 mrad

0.1 mrad

0.1 mrad

0.1 mrad

0.1 mrad

0.1 mrad

0.1 mrad

Adjustment range

E: 26 mrad

W: 18 mrad

E: 29 mrad

W: 14.5 mrad

E: 34 mrad

W: 15 mrad

E: 35 mrad

W: 20 mrad

E” 28 mrad

W: 12 mrad

E: 18 mrad

W: 12 mrad

E: 26 mrad

W: 12 mrad

Adjustment per turn

12 mrad, double turn

10 mrad, double turn

12 mrad, double turn

10 mrad, triple turn

15 mrad, double turn

6 mrad, double turn

14 mrad, double turn

Zero Stop

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Reticle Location

FFP

FFP

FFP

FFP

FFP

FFP

FFP

Reticle Illumination

Yes

Optional

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Yes

Price

$2400

$2200 - $3200

$1800

$2200

$2900

$3000

$2400


The Mark 6 I have here has the CMR-W reticle which some find too thick, but I like quite a bit.  It also has the M5B2 turret, which I do not like a whole lot at all.  The M5C2 turret I have seen was much better.

With red dot sights, I like to use the really small ones for this, like the diminutive Meopta Meosight III or the new Leupold Deltapoint.  I made a "poor man's 1x/10x" sight out of a SWFA SS 10x42HD and small red dot at a 45 deg offset and it works surprisingly well:


The next heaviest scope in that table is Tangent Theta which is an exceptionally nice design and in many ways may be the one to beat, but the 30mm tube version has a dual turn reticle that gives you 12mrad total adjustment after zero.  That is enough for my purposes, but YMMV.

Lastly, the Nightforce ATACR F1 4-16x50 was made with accurate gas guns in mind and while heavier than the Leupold, it is compact and exceptionally well made with a good elevation turret that locks on zero.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2015 at 21:15
bhsmith352 View Drop Down
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thanks all for the responses Big Grin I'm really considering the tangent theta.  I hadn't even heard of them before, but it looks perfect.  The only other model I was going to ask about, that nobody seems to mention or talk about is the Trijicon TARS.  Why is it that this optic seems to be banished from the long range shooting community?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2015 at 22:25
koshkin View Drop Down
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TARS is a nice scope, but it is expensive and weighs three pounds (quite literally three pounds).  I have seen a few of these around and they seem good, but I do not think they stand out enough to penetrate the market.

They need to bribe their way into some military contract to make a splash.  Without that, it is s tough sell at the price they want.

ILya
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