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Need help with base and rings...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/03/2005 at 22:13
HeavyDuty View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: July/31/2005
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As I mentioned in another post, I just traded for a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 SF Mildot for my new 700 VSSF in .223 .  I'm trying to figure out the mount and ring situation.

 

I want a Badger base.  For this scope, I'm thinking Leupold PRW or QRW rings (their selector suggests lows for a 40mm objective).  This isn't the scope of my dreams, so I feel no need to use Badger rings - I'll blow that wad after I save up for a Nikon Tactical 4-16x50.

 

However, per Nikon's specs both scopes have a total of 50 MOA adjustment range.  If I use a 20 MOA base, that only leaves me 5 MOA for mount variance.  (I've heard most scopes provide more adjustment range than the spec.)

 

How much of a risk am I taking?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/2005 at 10:37
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
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Points: 5087

Your problem dwells more in trying to make numbers come out than real difficulty. A 233  even when pushed all out in a 26" barrel with 50 gr. loads will hit an easy 3600 fps. and it your lucky 3300 fps with 69 grs. I doubt if the Rem has enough twist to stabilize. While I am a great respecter of high quality parts, and the additional time etc. that goes into them, using extremely heavy duty rings and base mounts is like putting Euclid tractor tires on a Toyoto pickup. I've seem some set ups with 2 sets of Badgers. Hell in the event of total gun melt down the thing left will be the rings all held together by 4 tiny 1/8" screws. I would like to see a set of rings of which are are tube completely solid covering the delicate scope innards and the objective glass willing to take any blow, (or some dummy left up against the pickup and I just drove over it). Now I have my dream mounts-just have to work on the size and weight.

Next hack- You are really underestimating that Nikon friend. I'm willing to bet real money that scope can outshoot your skills any day. Even if you had total load work (neck turn, total run out, match bullets) up that scope will still show the differences. With the degree of precision a .223 and that rifle is capable of you will need something in at least the 20 to 24x range to "outscope" the combination. No "tactical" scope will do that. (the cross hairs are thicker than the bullet width). Any good varmit setup can make a good sniper rifle, but few "tactical" rifles make good varmit rifles.

Time of flight is everything, it determines bullet drop, because it includes all the variables. B.C. sectional density, etc. Run out on scope turrets, and base mount declinations are not as critical as cheek weld and shooter skills. The additional ht you will have to raise the 50mm objective above the cheek-bore line is not worth it. Either of the rings you suggest are outstanding in quality and value, and I would be suprized if you still felt the need to "upgrade" after using them for a while.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/04/2005 at 16:27
HeavyDuty View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Points: 31

Dale –

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

Actually, my reason for wanting a Nikon Tactical down the road doesn't have to do with any major shortcomings in the Buckmaster.  It's more because I appreciate fine optics and it has features I desire – that's why I have a Hasselblad and a bag full of Nikons left over from my news photographer days. 

 

Also, I'm planning on staying with 55 gr. or lighter due to the VSSF's 1 in 12 twist.  This isn't meant to be a tactical rifle, nor a varminter – simply an accurate rifle I can have some fun with and learn Mildot techniques.

 

My intent here is to put a "permanent" base on the rifle now, and a set of good quality (but not Badger quality) rings on the scope that will stay with the scope when it moves to a new rifle.  I like the Badger because hanging an ACI is easy with the full length rail.

 

My concern is running out of elevation in this particular scope if I get to playing around with longer ranges, thus the question about using a 20 MOA base.  Do I have to be concerned that I won't be able to get a 100 yard zero with this scope on a 20 MOA base?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/05/2005 at 03:28
ZombieFan View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
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I don't know if I missed the boat here or what, but you should be fine adjustment wise. If you want some heavy duty rings, look at some IOR's. They make a good heavy duty ring. For about half of the badgers. Or some Warne tactical rings. Very nice one's also. Anyway, just trying to help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2005 at 21:03
HeavyDuty View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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It looks like we lost a few posts in a server crash.  Glad the forum's back.

 

Anyway, at the risk of looking like a moron, I'm stepping back and re-examining my commitment to using a heavy Picatinny base.  I spent part of the down time looking for pics of serious varmint rigs (which is as close as I can get to what I'm trying to do), and have come to the conclusion that the vast majority use "normal" rings and bases.  So, I'm giving consideration to a set of good conventional rings and base, possibly Leupold QRs.  I can always change the base out of I go with a future Tactical model scope.

 

This is starting to stray from the Tactical forum focus, but is there a reason I would want to choose two piece bases over one piece?  I would think a one piece base would be sturdier, but it does limit access to the action a bit.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2005 at 21:26
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


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Normal bases sort of originated when Redfield introduced the windage adjustment in the rear base, because scopes where so bad then (relative) you never new if one would center with normal clicks. There are no need for these type today, however everyone has a drawer full, and I suppose they will be around longer than I will. Starting new or starting over I would take Warne or Talley any day.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/06/2005 at 21:49
HeavyDuty View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Which Talleys, Dale?  The new one piece integrated base and rings?  Chris speaks highly of them in a few posts.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2005 at 09:33
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
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Points: 5087
I would go with the lightweight 1 piece. Let me know if you find a scope that comes even close to Nikon or Hasseblad, lenses I'll go buy a bunch. Consider a piece of steel bridging two pieces of steel with different coefficient of expansion on a hot day. With the mount screws torqued to 30 dynes and set with lock tite the base expansion now exerts x ft/lbs of torque differential on the two surfaces. ( a one piece mount and the two ends of the receiver). Now add to the problem a tube made of aluminum with a coef. of expansion at least 3 times higher and painted black no less. Now tighten the tube such that all torque is transferred to the mounts and rings. Good argument for having the rings and bases made of the same material and one piece with a grip type on a rail (weaver type mount as the base). The only thing I've found good about 1 piece mounts is that you can shim the back holes to get additional min of angle at long range as your question is asking in the above. Your gun will shoot 1/4" which is 1 inch groups at 400 yards. The gun supplies the physical -mil-dot supplies the link from the physical to your optical system-eye and brain. Its range finding capabilites are no better than knowing a dog is a target 8 inchs of opportunity (god I love swat jargon) and takes up 1/2 (1/8 etc) the distance between the duplexes on your scope. If you need refinement beyond this laser distance finders are much better than either. In any case you still have to use hold over or dial in the distance. Mil-dot systems estimate the cone of fire drop by placing their indexes at equal distance rather than progressive distances on the optical plane. Burris used to make a scope with 3 horizontal that when the 2 stadia were indexed against the height of the target automatically and mechanically indexed the the 3rd horizontal for correct bullet drop. As far as I know it only came out in a 3X9 and I wish I had never traded the one I had. This is the best system I have ever used, (extensively on antelope in Utah and Wyoming 300 to 1000 yds). No playstation lines and busyness in the optical field.
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