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Need help picking a scope. Getting frustrated...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2016 at 22:46
kykamo View Drop Down
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Hey,

Ive creepped these forums for a while now and am a huge fan of Koshkin. Keep up the good work!

I really need some advice tho. Im new to shooting long range so dont know whats necessary and whats not. I hunt deer and elk out to 400 yards with my 270 win. but also want to start shooting long range out to max 1000 yards at STEEL. I want to hit 8" targets at 600 and 800 and 1 moa at 1000 one day. I walk alot with my rifle (ill be hiking to get to a 600-1000 yard range). I also dont spin the turrets much. i highly prefer holdovers and holding for wind.

So given this i think i need a "tweener" type scope with a nice reticle that has multiple aiming points on it (iv found this type of reticle feature has eliminated ALOT of scopes from my choices :( ). Since i like quicker holdover shots, i figured ffp would be best, but those are few and far between :( i dont know a convenient way to use a sfp reticle when i need to shoot 50-400 yards in the same hunt. I prefer 6x for all hunting, but need more magnification for long range shooting and the math has not been made simple to me and i havnt seen a reticle that has reliable aim points between 250 and 350ish yards when its at half calibrated power (maybe i need to just deal with that??). the most i could spend is $800, if its worth it over a $300-600 scope.

The scopes im looking at so far:

Vortex Diamondback HP either 2-8x32 or 3-12x42
cheapest option, is 8x good enough for 800-1000 yard pot shots?? i 32mm good enough for dawn and dusk shooting? is this a better value for me than the others?? cant find too much info about these. seems like the same glass as the vipers?

Vortex Razor HD LH i assume 3-15x cause i want the side focus right?
I know this is out of the budget, but is it worth it?? i also LOVE the HSR-4 reticle

Vortex PST FFP 2-10x32mm
An ffp. has all the bells and whistles. Expensive tho, is it worth it? i am concerned about the 32mm, though when i shoot dawn and dusk ill most likely be on 6x power.

Burris Veracity 2-10x42mm
ffp. kinda heavy. From reviews it seems like all vortex glass is better than buriss, but a ffp at this price seems like a good deal. what do u think?

Are there any others?

I went to the store and looked through the HP and burris and some others, but i couldnt tell a difference in the store. I only noticed some "fish globe" effect on some baseline models.

So what would u do? Whats the best fit in your opinion? Whats the best value here? What do i need and what can i do without???! Im exhausted trying to figure this out

i really appreciate you help
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 03:23
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Originally posted by kykamo kykamo wrote:

Hey,

Ive creepped these forums for a while now and am a huge fan of Koshkin. Keep up the good work!



Who??

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 05:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 08:03
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Of the scopes you have listed I have owned the 3-12 Diamondback and the 2.5-10 FFP PST. The Diamondback is a nice scope and my son uses it on his 243, works well for deer hunting in the southeast, shots over 200 yards are rare for us. No issues with dawn and dusk shots. Not sure in would try to hold for shots with either reticle that the scope comes with.

I sold my PST because the reticle was too fine to be used below 5 and I used the scope on my varmint rifle. For you this won't be a problem if you keep it set at 6. I always dialed elevation and held for wind with this scope, you may be able to hold for both, I never tried.

Check out the SWFA 3-15 FFP,it is in your price range, offers more magnification and I like it better than the PST.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 08:51
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Originally posted by kykamo kykamo wrote:

Hey,

Ive creepped these forums for a while now and am a huge fan of Koshkin. Keep up the good work!

I really need some advice tho. Im new to shooting long range so dont know whats necessary and whats not. I hunt deer and elk out to 400 yards with my 270 win. but also want to start shooting long range out to max 1000 yards at STEEL. I want to hit 8" targets at 600 and 800 and 1 moa at 1000 one day. I walk alot with my rifle (ill be hiking to get to a 600-1000 yard range). I also dont spin the turrets much. i highly prefer holdovers and holding for wind.

So given this i think i need a "tweener" type scope with a nice reticle that has multiple aiming points on it (iv found this type of reticle feature has eliminated ALOT of scopes from my choices :( ). Since i like quicker holdover shots, i figured ffp would be best, but those are few and far between :( i dont know a convenient way to use a sfp reticle when i need to shoot 50-400 yards in the same hunt. I prefer 6x for all hunting, but need more magnification for long range shooting and the math has not been made simple to me and i havnt seen a reticle that has reliable aim points between 250 and 350ish yards when its at half calibrated power (maybe i need to just deal with that??). the most i could spend is $800, if its worth it over a $300-600 scope.

The scopes im looking at so far:

Vortex Diamondback HP either 2-8x32 or 3-12x42
cheapest option, is 8x good enough for 800-1000 yard pot shots?? i 32mm good enough for dawn and dusk shooting? is this a better value for me than the others?? cant find too much info about these. seems like the same glass as the vipers?

Vortex Razor HD LH i assume 3-15x cause i want the side focus right?
I know this is out of the budget, but is it worth it?? i also LOVE the HSR-4 reticle

Vortex PST FFP 2-10x32mm
An ffp. has all the bells and whistles. Expensive tho, is it worth it? i am concerned about the 32mm, though when i shoot dawn and dusk ill most likely be on 6x power.

Burris Veracity 2-10x42mm
ffp. kinda heavy. From reviews it seems like all vortex glass is better than buriss, but a ffp at this price seems like a good deal. what do u think?

Are there any others?

I went to the store and looked through the HP and burris and some others, but i couldnt tell a difference in the store. I only noticed some "fish globe" effect on some baseline models.

So what would u do? Whats the best fit in your opinion? Whats the best value here? What do i need and what can i do without???! Im exhausted trying to figure this out

i really appreciate you help

Welcome to the OT forums! I hear that Koshkin autographs can be had... relatively cheap. LOL. His recommendations are the best though. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 09:20
kykamo View Drop Down
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Thanks guys.

My problem with the ss is its weight. its jsut too heavy, i feel, for walking around alot. i also live in canada, so im not sure exactly how much it would cost me. it gets sooo many good reviews tho...

lol id love an autograph! id love to know his recommendations and especially his thoughts on the veracity. the review of the xtr2 on opticsthoughts wasnt so good :(
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 11:27
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IMO you will ultimately need a scope with target type turrets also.  Shooting 800 to 1000 yards is extremely difficult to do well.  It requires dealing with the wind and many other factors.  Holding for wind and elevation gets difficult.  There are a few reticles that allow for this, but even then it is hard because you are dealing with holding for both of those variables.  Many shooters will either dial for elevation and hold for wind or vise versa. 

For shooting those types of distances a hunting scope is not a great choice.  It lacks in the things that are important for making consistent shots at long range.  The SS 3-15 is only 6 more ounces than the Diamondback HD you listed.  That is not much and for what you are wanting to do it will be 10 times the scope.

Leupold Patrol VXR 3-9x would be a decent choice.  (SFP though, but anything over 100 yards you will have it on 9x anyway likely. )

 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 12:10
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What you need is an FFP 3-15 with a Christmas tree reticle and capped turrets, not sure who makes that.

And I am not aware of anyone taking a 270 out to 1000 yards, you might want to take a look at ballistics before choosing the scope.

Edited by Rancid Coolaid - August/09/2016 at 15:42
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 13:20
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"Quote
For shooting those types of distances a hunting scope is not a great choice.  It lacks in the things that are important for making consistent shots at long range.  The SS 3-15 is only 6 more ounces than the Diamondback HD you listed.  That is not much and for what you are wanting to do it will be 10 times the scope. Quote"

"Quote
I am not aware of anyone taking a 270 out to 1000 yards.  Quote"


ST is spot on depending on how devoted you are to shooting 1K. Your budget limits you in a big way for getting that "all round" scope for both. But you can get one that will give you what you need for distance and be ok for hunting or vice versa. I would strongly suggest getting a target turret 14X or more with mil dot or some form of windage/elevation markings for holdover. Then you can learn both to see which actually works best for you. Many people shoot 1K with fixed 10X scopes using holdover very successfully and you may be one but what if your not? This choice is key in many ways so make it as versatile as possible. As you no, no one here can tell you what shooting recipe fits you best.

RC's statement about the 270 bears thought as well. I built a 270 that shoots very well at 1K but you need to consider loading for it. There are some factory rounds that will do it but, they are not cheap.

I checked the Sample list to see if there is anything that might do what you need. In respect to your budget and then no budget restraints.

http://www.samplelist.com/Meopta-4-16x44-MeoStar-R1-30mm-Rifle-Scope-DEMO-B-P97975.aspx

http://www.samplelist.com/Vortex-4-16x44-Viper-HS-T-30mm-Rifle-Scope-DEMO-C-P98030.aspx

http://www.samplelist.com/Nikon-4-16x50-Monarch-3-Riflescope-DEMO-A-P94445.aspx

http://www.samplelist.com/Leupold-40x45-Competition-30mm-Riflescope-DEMO-A-P96940.aspx

http://www.samplelist.com/Valdada-IOR-6-24x50-Hunting-Rifle-Scope-DEMO-B-P91920.aspx

http://www.samplelist.com/Zeiss-6-24x56-Victory-Diavari-FL-Rifle-Scope-DEMO-B-P86875.aspx

http://www.samplelist.com/Zeiss-6-24x56-Victory-Diavari-FL-Rifle-Scope-DEMO-B-P86877.aspx

I know some of these are crazy high but, If you ever get opportunity to use them you will understand why.

Welcome to the OT and Good Luck!!!


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 15:57
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My 270 is a Tikka T3 lite and it kicks like a 3-legged ninja, I cannot imagine shooting that at the range for fun.  That said, what can it do now at 400 yards?  If you are looking for 1 MOA at 1000 yards, you need to be sure your rifle is up to the task.

Assuming it is, and you want something that works well at the range and in the field, you want the lowest turrets you can get (I would want capped if you are slinging the rifle for long walks) and good low light capabilities.  If you zero at 250 and want to reach out to 1000, you'll either be turret-spinning or doping a reticle with LOTS of drop.

To get close to what you want in capabilities, you might have to make some compromises. A list of "want" vs "need" would be helpful.

And, to set expectations appropriately, forget anything in a $300 price range doing what you want done.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 18:20
kykamo View Drop Down
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You guys are superb!

So getting out to 1000 is an end goal of mine. i assume that ill start at 400 and eventually get to 800 or farther. perhaps by then ill want a new scope. just seeing if there is a scope that can do all nicely.

i will reload my 270win. i wanted a 260 or 6.5 but the parts for 270 are waaaaay more available so ill reload them. i think ballistically u can do it. 270 win just inst a popular cartridge in the tac or target world.

i think i can do it with 10x or 12x max. i can see 10" steel easy enough down to 8x. thats pushin it tho. im worried about having a 15x with either a ffp or sfp scope, that the reticle will be either too small and useless or not having sufficient aim points when in 6x to keep my bullet within 2" of poa at 300-400 yards. should i be?

Wants vs needs list (an excellent idea):

need:
reticle with holdover points
parallax adjustable
OB no more than 44mm
9x high end minimum
6x low end maximum
Optically great for the money spent
decently reliable turrets
good warranty 

want:
IR
ffp (tho with my kind of shooting would u agree i need it? never used one before)
22 ounces or less
side focus
capped turrets
not tall tall turrets


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 21:24
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There is the one thing that holds the .270 back for long range target. There is a weak selection of ballisticly efficient bullets for that purpose. The .270 is a hunting rifle. The 270 usually has a light barrel for lugging it around. Not so good for shooting long strings of shots. Kind of like taking a BMW through a mud bog. It will never do as good as a dedicated 4X4 with high clearance. Wink  If you plan on shooting in multiple disciplines, you need multiple rifles and scopes. One setup will never work well for all. Figure out what 70% of the use this rifle is good for. Then scope it accordingly. Buying more guns is is cheaper than attempting to make one work in a way it was not designed. Loco

And welcome to the OT. This is what we are here for.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2016 at 21:41
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A scope that will do everything on your budget and be optimally set up for both hunting and long range shooting does not really exist.

For long range shooting using a reticle, you need something with a Christmas tree style reticle which I have not seen in your price range.

Then, since you are also worried about weight, your options are further diminished.

Now, if you really want that one scope to do it all, this is your best bet:

Save some more money and learn to put up with the weight.  With a good 270 load, like what Wes posted above, this reticle will get you out to 1000 yards.

If yuo want to prioritize hunting and view long range as on occasional exercise to gain proficiency, then I would highly recommend Vortex Razor HD LH 3-15x50.  I have one and I am extremely impressed.  It is an SFP design, and the reticle is not designed for holdover at long ranges.  However, the turrets seem very repeatable and Kenton is beginning to make custom turrets for Razor HD LH, so you can get a custom elevation and windage turrets that will make long range a little easier.  This scope is a lot lighter, is optically excellent and has the right magnification range for your purposes.  

I suspect that once you spend some time and effort on learning to shoot at longer distances you will get a second rifle better optimized for that.  However, your 270 with the Razor HD LH will work in a pinch as you practice and figure out what works for you.

To answer a question about XTR II: I tested the 2-10x42 version very extensively and liked it a lot.  It is designed to compete against Vortex PST and does so exceedingly well.  I spent less time with hgiher magnification versions of XTR II, but head-to-head I slightly prefer them to the PST, except for the 6-24x50 PST which is a little cleaner optically than the 5-25x50 XTR II.  I do find preferring XTR II turrets.  Now, I am sure Vortex will update the PST soon enough, but for now in this price range, XTR II is pretty high on my list.  Do keep in mind that I am not a huge fan of the SCR reticle, but like the G2B.  It is not the snazziest looking reticle, but it works well in poor light and I am very used to it.  Honestly, I think  Burris is missing a good opportunity by not offering a good mrad based Christmas tree style reticle in XTR II (they do have a Horus reticle in the 4-20x50, but that is a bit too much for my tastes, I prefer simpler designs like Vortex' EBR-2 or EBR-7).

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 09:18
kykamo View Drop Down
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Thank you guys for your help.

Yes, long range steel shooting will be the secondary use of the rifle. i got that straight now. So, for hunting to 400 yards, and given my needs and wants list, which scopes do you recommend?

out of the ones i listed, which would you use? id love to know how each would preform differently from each other.

does the ffp option give a worthwhile advantage?

thanks again guys. your helping me out A LOT. And thanks ILya, its good to know the high end Burris scopes dont suck Smile 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 09:57
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You'd be hard-pressed to beat that Zeiss Conquest HD5 that Wes posted for hunting out to 600 yds or so.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 10:27
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Originally posted by DCAMM94 DCAMM94 wrote:

You'd be hard-pressed to beat that Zeiss Conquest HD5 that Wes posted for hunting out to 600 yds or so.

i know it looks awesome! but i live in canada, so if i could get it, that would not be the final price :(

the scopes i listed i can get decent deals on right now. from either sales or second hand, but i can always keep my eyes open for a good deal if there's a different scope thats waaaay better in the price range
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 10:58
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Can you get a hold of a Viper HS LR in canada some of them have the XLR MOA reticle.  It may be very close to what you are after.  Looks like most have been discontinued or are on the way out. 

http://www.vortexoptics.com/discontinued/vortex-viper-hs-25-10x32-lr-long-range-riflescope-with-xlr-moa-reticle 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 11:14
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ill keep my eyes open. havnt seen one tho
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 11:37
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Where are you in Canada?  Maybe we could get Peddler to saunter across the bridge at Niagara Falls and leave a scope for you in the Men's Room of the Hard Rock Café kinda like in The Godfather!  







Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 13:27
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Originally posted by DCAMM94 DCAMM94 wrote:

You'd be hard-pressed to beat that Zeiss Conquest HD5 that Wes posted for hunting out to 600 yds or so.

I'll take Razor HD LH over the HD5 any time.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 13:40
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ILya, 

How is the Diamondback HP vs the burris veracity? Im thinking its coming down to either these two. The Razor HD LH i was looking at second hand just got sold so i think one of those store bought is too far out of my price range. So if i cant get an ffp, is the Diamondback HP a good deal?

thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 15:10
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Originally posted by Son of Ed Son of Ed wrote:

Where are you in Canada?  Maybe we could get Peddler to saunter across the bridge at Niagara Falls and leave a scope for you in the Men's Room of the Hard Rock Café kinda like in The Godfather!  









Eduardo, the TI Bridge is a lot closer!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 15:20
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

Originally posted by DCAMM94 DCAMM94 wrote:

You'd be hard-pressed to beat that Zeiss Conquest HD5 that Wes posted for hunting out to 600 yds or so.

I'll take Razor HD LH over the HD5 any time.

ILya

There you have it.  Koshkin has spoken.  THREADKILLER! Big Grin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/10/2016 at 17:04
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