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Need Help on Bushnell 4200

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2007 at 16:19
tkcomer View Drop Down
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I have a Remington 700 that had a Tasco 8X36 scope that went bad. I'm using a Leupold one piece base and the twist in rings. Bought a Bushnell 8X36 4200 Elite and placed it on the gun. The gun shot 5 ½” low at 25 yards right off the bat. At this close range, the scope ran out of adjustments. It is still about 1” low. The Tasco was sighted in, but you couldn't see clearly from it and point of impact was moving around as I adjusted the magnification on it. Since the Tasco was sighted in, I don't believe it is my setup. Any ideas? On a side note, this thing is clear. But maybe I was looking through a fuzzy scope too long.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2007 at 19:14
pyro6999 View Drop Down
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OT TITAN

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i would take the scope off and make sure everything below it is tight then remount the scope make sure the ring screws are tight and try it again if it still doesnt work take it back and get a new one. a 4200 shouldnt act up like that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2007 at 19:58
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Optics Master
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First of all, I did not know Bushnell made a Elite 4200 8x 36mm scope.  Please clarify the scope you have, as well as the mounts and rings you are using.  Further advice will follow.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2007 at 20:43
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Optics GrassHopper
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Oops, I typed 36 instead of 32. It's this scope here: http://www.swfa.com/pc-1320-185-bushnell-8-32x40-elite-4200- rifle-scope.aspx The mounts are Leupold. One piece base mounts for the 700 Remington and their twist in rings. Center of scope looks to be about 1 3/8” above the bore. Like I said, this setup worked with the Tasco scope. That's what puzzles me. When the rifle shot 5 ½” low at 25 yards, I figured I was in trouble. The Leupold base will adjust for right and left but not up and down. I've heard of shimming the base to correct scope problems, but I'm not sure how to do that or what material to use. Or thickness. I'm still not sure if it is a scope problem or my setup.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2007 at 22:30
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Optics Master
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What caliber rifle is it to warrant that power of a scope?  Second, what one piece base are you using, meaning what brand and specifications.  There is probably something wrong with your setup.  Let me know more specifics

.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2007 at 23:04
tkcomer View Drop Down
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The rifle is a Remington 700, stainless varmint in 308. 26” barrel. Trying to set it up for long range shots. Bullet is a 168 Sierra Matchking behind 44gr of Winchester 748. The mounts are over 12 years old. On the Leupold web site, they look like the STD mounts. Mine are the one piece mounts. Rings are Leupold that twist into the mounts. I start all guns at 25 yards to see where I'm at when I put a scope on. If the weather holds, I may put another scope on it to see where that one shoots.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 00:25
rootmanslim View Drop Down
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If it shoots fine with scope A and way off with scope B, try scope C (any working 1" one will do)
If A & C work I'd say it's back to the store, get a refund and buy one of those great Monarch deals before they are gone.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 00:27
rootmanslim View Drop Down
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Another thought, you might have a mismatched set of rings as they come in several different heights.
That also could have contributed to your tasco's demise.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 12:36
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Ah ha, root, you finally came to a better conclusion, but unlikely.  The Tasco supposedly went bad.  We do not know that for sure.  The mount is 12 years old, but he did not say how old the rings are.  If they are new, then you are correct, he may have mismatched them.  I never use Leupold mounts, so my familiarity with them is poor.  If the rings are 12 years old, then, a new set of mounts and rings are in order.  I cannot see how the Tasco came to its demise the way you describe, unless he bought new rings and remounted the Tasco.

 

tkcomer, tell us if the rings are new, if you remounted the Tasco on the new rings and if you many have mismatched those rings.  Most of the time, when a brand new scope is mounted, especially a 4200, if there is a problem, it is usually a mounting problem.  Let me know and I will solve your problem.  I have mounted hundreds of scopes.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 12:56
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The rings and bases were mounted on the rifle with the scope years ago. I set this gun up to shoot groundhogs in the fall of '93. Coyotes showed up that winter and by spring of '94, no more groundhogs. I just bought this rifle out recently and decided to make a paper puncher out of it. That's when my friend on the police force (One of their snipers) and I noticed how fuzzy the scope was. So I bought the 4200. Right now I have an old Weatherby 4X mounted on the gun sitting in the shop. I'm waiting on the pouring down rain to stop just to fire some rounds through the gun to see what that scope will do. Right now the radar is showing heavy rain for the area but it might move out in about an hour. Then I'll do a quicky test. No precision. Just fire for effect.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 15:14
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Well, I think it's official now. Weatherby scope shot 6” low the first group. Around 30 clicks moved it about 2” up at 25 yards. I dug the Tasco up and the top adjustment is just about out of range. So it's obvious my mounts are the problem. Is there a difference in Remington 700 receivers? Mine is the stainless varmint model with the fluted barrel and composite stock if it makes a difference. This one piece mount is a 3 screw mount. 2 up front, one in the back. Since I mounted the base so long ago, is there the possibility I got the wrong one? I'm thinking the rings are the same regardless of the base. Or should I scrap the whole setup and go to something else? Kinda at a loss here. I never thought the Leupold base and rings would be bad unless I have the wrong ones. Any suggestions? I'm wide open at this point.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 15:22
rootmanslim View Drop Down
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You gotta read all the posts

" Another thought, you might have a mismatched set of rings as they come in several different heights.
That also could have contributed to your tasco's demise."

You also might have the special long range base that has built in elevation, that would it to shoot high.

Go spend the $50.00 for a new base and rings before you wreck another scope by running it at its limits of adjustment.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 15:26
rootmanslim View Drop Down
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Dolphin, IF he was shooting a 308 with a Tasco cranked up hard against the stops for a lot of rounds, the fine workmanship of those pride of Nippon scopes might have given up the ghost. I'm betting on either the wrong base or a set of mismatched (height) rings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 16:13
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Ok, got the calipers out, rings are the same height. Looked in the (competitor) catalog. The one piece Leupold bases are the same except for finish. Don't think I would have the long range base as the rifle is shooting way low. What's really frustrating is I have another rifle with scope problems. AR-15 flat top that I just put together last week. It has a really old Tasco 6X24 I put on it. Shooting way high and way left. Adjustments on the scope don't even seem to do much of anything. I have that exact same scope on a Weatherby Vanguard with factory mounts and that scope is flawless. I don't mind throwing money at a problem, but I'd like to know what the problem is before I throw money at it.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 17:48
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I betting on problems with the base and rings.  The old Tasco may have had more elevation adjustment than the 4200 and you were able to sight it in.  Try a pair of one piece Talley mounts/rings or Warne mounts and rings and I bet your problem will be solved.  So root, what scope do you prefer and do not say S&B.  Spend 500 on a rifle and 1800 on a scope to shoot elk.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2007 at 22:54
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Well, I am getting set to order a few things for reloading. Those Talley one piece base ring combo look pretty sturdy. Never saw a setup like that. I'll give those a try. Of course when they come in, it'll probably be about zero here. Thanks for the info. I agree it is my setup and not the scope. I'll try and get this gun going and then work on that AR-15.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 12:56
rootmanslim View Drop Down
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Before you run out and buy the Talleys... The buris signatures are available with eccentric insets that allow you to start with a centered reticule and and boresighter and try different inserts to get things centered up before you touch the scope adjustments. It really works on misdrilled receivers or a cocked bbl (either of which you might have)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 14:22
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Went to the Burris sight and looked at those rings. That's a neat idea. Get the rings, buy the inserts later if you run into trouble. Not for sure if I want the standard base or the double dovetail one. Are these good rings? I don't want top start over twice. I'd have to give SWFA a call on this one to make sure I get the right ones.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 16:45
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Too much work with those rings and mount and inserts.  The fewer the parts, the more stable the mounts and rings.  The quality of your rifle will be such that the Burris mounts and rings are not necessary, nor is the expense.  After mounting well over 100 scopes on good quality rifles, I have never had to "shim" one.  I do not make it a habit of mounting scopes on sloppy rifles.  Typically, I use up very little elevation and windage adjustments.  You will not go wrong with the Talley one piece mounts and the simplicity of installation, speaks for itself.  The Warne mounts and rings are as stout as they come, but more difficult to install, but not that big of a deal.

Edited by Dolphin
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 19:53
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To be nice, Dolphin, that is incorrect. Tell me how lapping rings to fit is LESS work than trying a few inserts? If he has a misdrilled reciever and/or a canted bbl there is NO OTHER mount/rings made today that will allow him to correct windage AND elevation issues like the Signature. 15 minutes with an insert set and a borescope and he'd be in the black WITHOUT touching his scope's internal adjustments.
The double dovetail is great with a hard kicker (like my 400 H&H) but the turn ins work fine on anything "normal". NOTE the rings are different between the TI & DD!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 20:28
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I had some Signature rings on a Webley Scott Patriot. The inserts are nice, no ring marks. The scope held zero for a couple of shots. This may not apply to the Redfield style ring, but on a hard kicking spring gun with the 3/8 dovetail, the rings moved badly.

Talleys are top drawer mounts. I have them on several guns from .260 Rem up to .375H&H and they don't move, period. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 21:07
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Wrong, wrong, wrong root.  He has had a scope on his rifle that worked fine.  Why should he go to Burris signature mounts with plastic inserts that compensate for problems with his rifle, that were never a problem before.  Simplicity is the name of the game.  Don't complicate things, the more you do, the more problems you have.  Swicthing out inserts for mms of difference is inherently insane, unless you have a sloppy rifle.  He has proved he does not.  Do not listen to the words of insanity and go simple, you will be much happier.  Good rings rarely need lapping.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2007 at 23:10
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Dolphin I guess you missed this part of his post

"Well, I think it's official now. Weatherby scope shot 6” low the first group. Around 30 clicks moved it about 2” up at 25 yards. I dug the Tasco up and the top adjustment is just about out of range. So it's obvious my mounts are the problem."

He has proven that the mounting system is THE PROBLEM. He tried the scope A,B,C method I suggested and STILL HAD THE PROBLEM.

"good rings rarely need lapping" is why most of the used scope ones sees have ring marks. That will never happen with the Signatures. I suggest you try a set and see what I mean. Switching the inserts can compensate for all kinds of problems before you have to move your internal adjustments.Call Burris and talk with a tech... it's free knowledge.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 06:38
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I doubt I'll be able to pull this off today because of the weather, but I'm going to give this thing one more shot. I have a set of 2 piece Leupold bases. Just couldn't find them until now. If this thing still shoots low, I'm thinking something must be wrong with the rings. I don't think the receiver on the gun would be machined wrong. I've also mounted a very old Pacific 4X scope on it. I live in the north east part of Kentucky and it has warmed up to 61 degrees with a howling wind and rain. I doubt I'll get a shot off. I also agree that the Tasco had more vertical adjustment than the 4200. I like the simplicity of the Talley, but if I'm still shooting low, I'll have doubts as to where it is my rings or the gun. If it is the gun, the Burris might be the answer.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2007 at 06:39
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Again, replace the mounts/rings with a simple pair.
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