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need help on a 223 load

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2011 at 15:38
jjrgr21 View Drop Down
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as you can see in the picture, the bottom 2 are pretty much identical. both loaded with 24.2gr of varget, under a 75gr hornady BTHP. the top load is a 68gr hornady bthp with 25 gr of vargt.

shot out of a RRA 16", normally the 75gr load is well within 1", and the 68, about .5". but now i'm getting a consistent spread. 1st shot on the $$ and the following 2 are off, but grouped well. granted i normally don't clean it that often, but it just seems like somethings not right?

any ideas?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2011 at 18:29
Cody.e.Smith View Drop Down
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Have you eliminated shooter error before moving on to other diagnosis?  

Are you shooting off of any kind of rest such as bi-pod, tri-pod, sandbags or such under the front hand guard and also are you using anything to stabilize the but stock other than just the pocket of your shoulder?

After the first shot are you taking the same cheek weld and obtaining the same sight picture?  It looks as though you are for the 2nd and 3rd shot since they show consistency, just not consistent with the first shot.

Are you getting a nice clean trigger break on all 3 shots or are you mashing the trigger on the 2nd and 3rd?

Not knowing anything other than the picture and that you said the 1st shot is on but the other two are off and assuming you are maintaining proper sight alignment, sight picture, and trigger control leads me to believe you are shooting off of either sand bags or a soft back pack or the like and taking your time on the first shot but when the 2nd and 3rd shot come up you are breaking the trigger just before you reach the top of your breath while your body is still in motion raising the rear of the rifle slightly and you try to quickly press the trigger to get the shot off before you completely lose your sight picture.  

If you are right handed that would be consistent with students that I have had in the past for groupings of what you showed here.

I would suggest have a person sit and watch your trigger press as you fire off each round and pay attention to where in your breath the trigger is breaking.  Also between each shot stand up and take in a few deep breaths to relax before taking the following shot and guarantee the exact same sight picture as before.  

If you sit there between shots and stare through the optics it tires the muscles in your eyes and causes stress and tension that you don't realize is even building up.  If your follow up shots take more than about 5-8 seconds from the previous shot and you maintain looking through your optics, that is long enough for fatigue to set in and mess with your vision. 

I would start with this before moving on to check your weapon, mounts, and optics than last check your load (powder charge, bullet depth, primer, and case prep consistency).  

I hope this may be helpful for you.  I know it can be very frustrating when you have had excellent groups before with the same weapon than all of a sudden it seems to fall apart.  Try to remember that we all go through peaks and valleys with our shooting and this may just be a valley for you.

Good luck and keep shooting.  


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2011 at 18:42
anomad View Drop Down
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What does a 10 shot group look like?

Are you getting different POI between shots loaded manually and ones automatically loaded by the weapon? I've seen that in autos.

(that shooting is comfortably inside MY error, that's for sure)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/17/2011 at 19:43
jjrgr21 View Drop Down
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both the 75's are consistent, and the 68 is right on. so i don't think shooter error, is the problem. i'm shooting off of bi-pods with a bag. same cheek weld, same POA. the 68 was my last group.

i keep all my targets, and haven't found any correlation.

i shot the same load last week, and was holding 10 shots in 1.5" @100, then i cleaned it. i mean i scrubbed the hell out of it.

i'll try again tomorrow

thanks,
J
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/02/2011 at 17:47
Txhillbilly View Drop Down
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What is the twist rate on your RRA?
The 75gr bullets may not have enough barrel (16") to get properly stabilized-giving you the groupings that you have shown.
 
I shoot 75gr BTHP and AMax bullets often out of my RRA 20" varminter 1-8 twist,and Savage 12 26"barrel 1-9 twist.
I know guy's that have 20" 1-9 twist barrels that also have problems with the 75gr BTHP,even though they are said to shoot with a 1-9 twist.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/10/2011 at 21:09
jjrgr21 View Drop Down
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1/9, the load has been a consistent producer for years. i found the problem to be, that i'm not as consistent as the load.
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