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Need help mounting Zeiss 6.5x20x50!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/06/2010 at 03:53
Ford View Drop Down
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Joined: February/06/2010
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Hello to everyone I'm a newbie in more ways than one!
 
I have always loved guns and decided to get involved in paper targets etc. So i bought what i could afford and decided upon the new Browning A-bolt Target rifle .308 cal with the heavy 28" barrel. I then decided to mount the Zeiss Conquest 6.5x20x50 Rapid Z-1000 reticle scope. Now the shop i bought it from installed some Leopold rings and base, dual dove tail standard rings and base, as they shared that would work, etc. My question is this.....while going through the manual for my scope it shared that while mounting the scope to the gun, "Special requirements should be met when sighting in the Conquest 6.5 – 20 x 50 MC rifle scope. To be able to use the full range of the elevation adjustment, the rifle scope should be mounted on the rifle at an angle of approx. 20 angular minutes with commercially available mounting systems (correspond to 21 inch/100 yards or 58.4 cm/100 m). "   I have to ask what exactly does this mean and am i using the proper rings and base for this? I apologize for being so uninformed (or stupid) and i am trying to learn as i go. I also ask as when i contacted the store and informed them about this the guy said he would have to use shims, then i asked if he bore sighted the gun for the reticle in the middle and he said yes, now i understand that it should have been done for the 100 yard line as the middle line is the 500 yard line.
Well any help or recommendations would be very appreciated. I am really itching to get up to the range but didn't want to go up and fart around if the gun hasn't been properly setup and the gun shop i bought it from and the guy who installed it didn't really seem to know what i was talking about when i quoted the manual from Zeiss, etc. I also apologize if this has been discussed extensively in the forum, i will continue to search out and try my best to read up on everything but i thought it best to ask you folks so that i didn't think i was on to something and then found out later i wasn't on track either!
 
At any rate should i have a different set of base and rings and what exactly is this commercially available mounting system exactly. Also any other suggestions you can think of please dont hesitate! I appreciate all your time and efforts!
 
Thanks!
 
Ford
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2010 at 19:45
2 Samuel 22 View Drop Down
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Ford, I have the same scope but with the mil-dot reticle.  I am using a 20MOA base and rings from Badger Ordnance.

The "special requirements" means that in order to make the most of the scope, you should mount it on a 20 MOA base.  Although you may be able to zero the center line at a 100 yards with the base & rings you have, you may not be able to zero at longer distances.  I'd stay away from shims and instead go with a 20 MOA base.  You are sure to find lots of information on canted bases on this forum.

As far as recommended manufacturers, EGW, Badger Ordnance, Seekins, TPS, NightForce, Warne, PRI and Ken Farrell are all popular.

A good economical combination would be an EGW 20 MOA base with Burris Xtreme rings or SWFA SS Rings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2010 at 23:47
Ford View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 2 Samuel 22 2 Samuel 22 wrote:

Ford, I have the same scope but with the mil-dot reticle.  I am using a 20MOA base and rings from Badger Ordnance.

The "special requirements" means that in order to make the most of the scope, you should mount it on a 20 MOA base.  Although you may be able to zero the center line at a 100 yards with the base & rings you have, you may not be able to zero at longer distances.  I'd stay away from shims and instead go with a 20 MOA base.  You are sure to find lots of information on canted bases on this forum.

As far as recommended manufacturers, EGW, Badger Ordnance, Seekins, TPS, NightForce, Warne, PRI and Ken Farrell are all popular.

A good economical combination would be an EGW 20 MOA base with Burris Xtreme rings or SWFA SS Rings.
Thanks samuel,
I found a set by EGW at 20 MOA which were designed for my Browning Target rifle and i also went with their rings for it to, a set of High 1" rings etc. Thanks a bunch for the help it led me rightto what i needed!!!!
 
Cheers buddy!  Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2010 at 09:52
2 Samuel 22 View Drop Down
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Any time, Ford.  Would love to hear back from you with a range report and pics of your setup.  I went with low rings and I have just enough clearance for Butler Creek covers.  Best regards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2010 at 17:09
Jim Bolivar diGriz View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 2 Samuel 22 2 Samuel 22 wrote:

... you may not be able to zero at longer distances...
Is it specific to this scope or ANY scope and long-distance shooting? I would think the latter.
I am considering selling my 3-9x50 for a scope with more power, but I won't be willing to change my rings (Optilocks on Tikka T3). 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/08/2010 at 19:19
2 Samuel 22 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Jim Bolivar diGriz Jim Bolivar diGriz wrote:

Originally posted by 2 Samuel 22 2 Samuel 22 wrote:

... you may not be able to zero at longer distances...
Is it specific to this scope or ANY scope and long-distance shooting? I would think the latter.
I am considering selling my 3-9x50 for a scope with more power, but I won't be willing to change my rings (Optilocks on Tikka T3). 


It is specific to this scope and certain others that have a limited amount of elevation adjustment.  And, it also depends on how far out you want to shoot.  You'll need to check the range of elevation on the scope you want.

Rancid Coolaid explains it very well in a thread he started a thread over in Rings & Bases:

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=21652

"Since I highly recommend canted bases on many tactical setups (long range and otherwise), I get many questions regarding what the rail actually accomplishes, most usually, something like : "Does a 20MOA base and a 50MOA scope give me 70MOA of adjustment?"

In short, no, and here's why:

A scope with 50MOA of elevation travel, when the reticle is centered, has 25MOA up and 25MOA down.  A 20MOA base, if the reticle is centered and the claimed 50MOA is actually 50, gives you 25MOA down + 20MOA from the rail= 45MOA.  There is nothing the rail can do to overcome the scope's elevation range limits.  You do not "gain"  an additional 20MOA with a rail, you simply reclaim 20 of the 25MOA that would be wasted - since you - once zeroed - never dope a reticle up, within certain limitations - most notably, a zero other than 100-200 yards.

With a 100-yard zero, a shot at longer range has you adjusted the reticle down, to compensate for the rainbow of the round.  With a 100-yard zero, no shot you take will require a dope change up, so any MOA-adjustment up is lost in terms of shooting utility.

All this "assumes" 2 things:

1.  You are dead-nuts centered in the elevation range when rounds are on target at whatever your zero - with a 0MOA rail, meaning you have 25MOA up and 25MOA down on a 50MOA elevation adjustment range
2.  Your claimed 50MOA is actually 50MOA.

Most of the time, one or both of these is not true.

Whether on tactical gun or not, a like canted rails (scope permitting) because it allows for more doping options, should I need them.  Once a scope is zeroed at some relatively close range, any "up" elevation remaining is wasted."
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2010 at 09:49
Jim Bolivar diGriz View Drop Down
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That's what I thought: the scope has limited (relatively) amount of elevation adjustments and in order to use this scope for long range shooting a special base needed. If the scope is zeroed/user for short-range shooting, it really does not matter.
And if fact you may mount it on a "normal" base and shoot long range using holdover points or sacrificing adjustments (the ones that move the reticle down, and consequently adding some adjustment for the other direction).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/09/2010 at 22:33
Ford View Drop Down
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Ok all, i return!
 
So it has been a journey to say the least!....i have found one and only one set of rings and bases that will allow me to make use of all the elevations in my scope 100 to 1000 yards, etc. EGW was the only manufacturer that has made a set of base and rings that has 20moa for my Browning A-bolt Target Rifle. No one else makes a set of  base and rings for my gun, can you believe this!!!!,....now i know my gun is really new and is only been around for a year but darn it i would have thought better support for it by now!
 
So anyhow i ordered them in and had them installed and i went to our local range (only 100 yards total) so i could sight in the gun. I used basic federal rounds until i got it within a group of about 4 or 5 inches then i went to my matched rounds and with a couple of shots and adjustments i had it group 4 rounds within 1/4" moa and or less. It was so sweet the stor ei bought it from wants to hang up the target sheet! :) I will get a photo of it and my gun and post it for you all to have a gander at. I will also be going to our local competition shoot here on this coming Sunday and we are expecting to go to 100 to 500 yards this time if the weather holds up, if it isnt very nice out then we will shorten it to 300 yards, etc. I should now be able to use all reticles in my scope as the 100 yard crosshair grouped 1/4" or less for me and worked flawless, so it should work in retrospect to shooting out to 1000 yards reticle too with everything in between working as well. Now i might have to shoot better ammo than the Federal Gold match 168 grain BTHP rounds i used for 100 yards but in terms of the reticles working as dexscribed witht he 20 moa base and rings etc it is working!
As i said i will post back soon with pictures etc with my setup and show you all, including the target i shot!
 
Thanks for all your suggestions and help!
 
Ford
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/15/2010 at 10:56
3_tens View Drop Down
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I have the Burris Signature Select rings with the 20 moa inserts. These rings also protect the scope from Ring marks and are less expensive than the 20 moa bases.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/03/2010 at 23:23
USN_Sam1385 View Drop Down
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Originally posted by 3_tens 3_tens wrote:

I have the Burris Signature Select rings with the 20 moa inserts. These rings also protect the scope from Ring marks and are less expensive than the 20 moa bases.


One of the main, if not the only causes of ring marks is over tightening of the scope when mounting.
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