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Neck Turning?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2008 at 23:07
richardca99 View Drop Down
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I'm just getting into reloading, and I'm trying to determine whether I should be worried about outside case neck turning.  I understand what can be achieved by doing it, but if my goal is to work up good hunting loads, is neck turning a varsity skill that I can live without? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2008 at 23:57
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 For a hunting rifle, neck-tuning is probably one of the very last things you need to be doing to get the most from your rifle.  It takes some fairly costly tools and quite a bit of time for some very small dividends, generally realized only in the most accurate rifles.
 Personally, I do it occasionally, because it's kinda fun, but for a beginning reloader, I really can't recommend doing it to achieve any significant improvement in accuracy.
 For the time being, concentrate on solid, basic handloading tools and techniques. Get good manuals and STUDY them!
Keep good records and work on load development, especially bullet and propellent choice. That's where to spend the time and money for the big payoffs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/16/2008 at 08:09
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outside neck turning pays off best when the brass has been through several cycles, say 10 and the necks have developed little hills and valleys. it returns the neck to its circular values and reduces the neck thickness that has been built up by the primer swager. most hunting rifles barrel's don't have concentric bore-neck and chambers, they become ellipsoid as the chamber reamers wear out, then when you fire, the case is made into that dimension. hunting guns that benefit most are varmit rifles.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2008 at 18:42
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RONK and Dale are 100% correct.
 
I have turned necks for some of my factory chambered stuff for a good while and yielded zero discernible benefits save being able to crack walnuts with my bare hands afterwards....Bucky    
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2008 at 19:35
RONK View Drop Down
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 No kidding! Glenn Zediker describes case prep equipment as "...twisty, spinny, blister-raising hand tools."
  I love that description!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2008 at 20:20
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 
 No kidding! Glenn Zediker describes case prep equipment as "...twisty, spinny, blister-raising hand tools."
  I love that description!
 
Perfect description, Ron.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/18/2008 at 22:49
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Unless you're shooting benchrest with a rifle using a tight neck custom chamber or you're necking down a case to smaller caliber (which sometimes necessitates removing brass thickness at the neck), you won't need to neck turn for a hunting rifle.  Generally, a factory rifle doesn't have the inherent accuracy to realize the very small improvement to accuracy.  As Dale mentioned, sometimes neck turning will true up the neck on a well-used case.  Once you turn very many case necks, believe me, you will be thankful that it's a largely unnecessary step!  Boozer
 
I may end up using it as a disciplinary action method for when my daughter misbehaves...
 
"One more word outta you, young lady, and it will be 4 hours worth of neck turning and primer pocket uniforming for you!"Hammer


Edited by RifleDude - February/18/2008 at 22:50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 08:14
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I agree with all of the above, you funny guys. I haven't had to do it, either.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 11:35
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some of the new cases, wsm, that when formed down, retain the same brass thickness as the body, and haven't been tapered. The thickness is way to much, and neck turning is almost impossible. If the case is neck is taken down the normal amt.s the case doesn't have enough tension to hold the bullet. as the die was set up for the thicker brass. 223
 the worst haven't tried 300 yet.
 the process works best with lots, of 100 to 200 , dedicated to life of that barrel.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 20:40
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I'd encourage you to try turning necks and see how that changes the response in your rifle.

While I wouldn't do it for hunting loads because of all the drawbacks involved, until YOU know, you'll never really be able to shake the idea that there's that one more thing you should be doing.

 

Having said that, short list of things that pay dividends with brass and prep;

Pick one brand of brass and stay with it.

FL size all new brass

Trim all FL sized brass to the same length

Uniform the flash holes

Uniform the primer pockets

(Sinclairs is your friend)

Once you have a  bunch of new brass processed, keep it as one lot.  If you do something to 1 piece of that lot, do it to all pieces of that lot.

These very simple steps pay huge dividends and stave off some serious frustration.

 

Count your fingers before starting to reload.  You've been sucessful if you have the same count when finished.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/19/2008 at 21:32
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Thanks for the feedback...sounds like most of you agree that other than for peace of mind, it's largely unnecessary.

If I had the ability to measure runout and case wall thickness, would it be worth doing after a few firings for the purposes of culling the brass?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2008 at 10:51
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Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

(Sinclairs is your friend)

 
Amen to that, brother!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2008 at 10:52
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Originally posted by richardca99 richardca99 wrote:

Thanks for the feedback...sounds like most of you agree that other than for peace of mind, it's largely unnecessary.

If I had the ability to measure runout and case wall thickness, would it be worth doing after a few firings for the purposes of culling the brass?
 
Sure, everything is worth trying to see if it matters in your rifle... but I'm betting it won't in a typical hunting rifle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/20/2008 at 16:08
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Anything that you can do to put the brass into as much a LIKE LIKE situation is going to help you, as far as obtaining that accuracy for targets and long distance. For most hunting applications it will be largely unnecessary.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/21/2008 at 21:00
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Start with good brass, expensive sometimes but I have found it worth the money in the long run. RWS, Norma, Lapua, Hornady are some of the best I have found. Not to say Remington, Winchester, and Federal are bad but they have not been as consistant as the others. As to runout, roll the loaded case on a piece of glass you will see any problems.  For a hunting rifle and loads I have found neck turning, runout not really a good return on the investment in equipment and time. Benchrest is a whole other game. It really does depend on what cartridge, magnums are a bit different and have their own issues. Short magnums again are different. Learn to neck size and always use cases fired in the rifle for reloading. Range pickups, used brass can and will give trouble. Reloading is not that hard, especially for hunting rounds.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2008 at 00:38
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 
 No kidding! Glenn Zediker describes case prep equipment as "...twisty, spinny, blister-raising hand tools."
  I love that description!
 
Yep, those purposemade handtools are mainly junk beacuse they are made to be sold for less than 100 dollars.
While I agree with you all about the huntingloads, i do outside neckturning for some of my more accurate rifles.
but i do it in the lathe, and that is much faster gives better results and finnish and there is no need for deburring.
 
Regards Technika
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2008 at 15:17
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 Oh, I wouldn't go so far as to say they are junk, merely because they sell for  less than 100 dollars. There are many high-quality hand tools on the market that do thier jobs very well indeed. A carbide primer pocket uniformer from EJS for example, does as accurate a job as can be accomplished by any 10,000 dollar lathe, Lee Case trimmers cut cases to virtually absolute uniformity and sell for what, 15 bucks?  There are many other examples, too...
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/22/2008 at 16:44
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Agree with the uniformity.  I weigh my brass as well, and anything +or- 10% gets set aside.   Amazing the differences even with a given lot, especially in the less expensive stuff.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/24/2008 at 00:27
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Mojo is correct.  Weighing the brass and keeping it within certain tolerances is one of the quicker and easier ways to improve your ammo.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/27/2008 at 03:23
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For normal hunting accuracy neck turning is not required. I started to do some target shooting of late and did neck turning on a 30-06 and a 300H&H. In my opinion it helped to tighten up the grouping.
I have neck turned all my brass. I have also bought a new Rem 308, and have allready neck turned the cheaper new brass. They were badly out of concentricity. I also bought Lapua brass, and do not need to be turned. They are perfect out the box.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2008 at 21:30
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Neck turning is only considered beneficial if you have a custom chamber with a tight neck.  That being said it can do no harm as long as you don't turn necks too thin, generally considered .010" or less.

An example of a tight neck and turning would be on my 6.5 rem mag which has a Douglas barrel that was reamed to have a neck of .292".  The 6.5 caliber would of course account for .264" of that which would mean that there is .028" clearance from caliber width.  You will need clearance between the chamber neck walls and the neck on a loaded round, generally .003".  That will allow the brass to expand and not cause a problem with bullet release.  So this leaves the excess of .025" for the brass thickness, or .0125" per side.
 
Now my Remington brass (the only kind available) has a thickness of .015" to .017" so I have to turn a lot! Whatever  I have to do it in 2 steps but this is a case where neck turning is absolutely necessary.
 
Another less strenuous example is my 280AI Hart barrel that has a neck of .313".  From .284" caliber width that leaves .029" and an acceptable neck thickness of .013".  The good thing is that the Nosler 280AI brass has a neck thickness between .013" to .014" so I only need to clean it up some.
 
I have a Forster neck turner and it works well.  The only one better might be the K & M cause it has cutting mandrel for donuts.
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