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Neck turning and FL resizing

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/07/2013 at 12:50
Gil P. View Drop Down
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I have been using a Lee Collet die for a while now and my Redding FL resizing die has been collecting dust. 308 cases to be used for tactical matches. 
 
So I thought I might do something new, but I have some questions.
 
1) People talk about removing the expander ball from the FL resizing die as it is not needed - how would I go about doing that? Do I need any special tools?
2) Should I send a fired case and the FL die to redding and have it customized?
3) What dimensions should I specify to be altered inside the FL die?
4) By removing the expander ball I have turned my FL die into a body die with decapping pin right?
5) What is neck turning and is it only necessary if I FL resize?
6) How can you measure how far the shoulder has been bumped back?
 
Right now I am neck sizing with a Lee Collet die, and when it is necessary, resizing the body with a Redding Body die that is adjusted per the instructions as I am unsure of how to measure how far I have bumped the shoulder back.
 
Which method do you feel is superior? Using the Lee Collet die and Redding body die - or - getting my Redding FL die customized, and removing the expander ball? I have no intention of neck turning my brass or measuring neck thickness.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/09/2013 at 18:46
sakomato View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Gil P. Gil P. wrote:



I have been using a Lee Collet die for a while now and my Redding FL resizing die has been collecting dust. 308 cases to be used for tactical matches. 
 
So I thought I might do something new, but I have some questions.
 
1) People talk about removing the expander ball from the FL resizing die as it is not needed - how would I go about doing that? Do I need any special tools?
2) Should I send a fired case and the FL die to redding and have it customized?
3) What dimensions should I specify to be altered inside the FL die?
4) By removing the expander ball I have turned my FL die into a body die with decapping pin right?
5) What is neck turning and is it only necessary if I FL resize?
6) How can you measure how far the shoulder has been bumped back?
 
Right now I am neck sizing with a Lee Collet die, and when it is necessary, resizing the body with a Redding Body die that is adjusted per the instructions as I am unsure of how to measure how far I have bumped the shoulder back.
 
Which method do you feel is superior? Using the Lee Collet die and Redding body die - or - getting my Redding FL die customized, and removing the expander ball? I have no intention of neck turning my brass or measuring neck thickness.


1. Your FL die will size the neck down very small and then you pull the expander back up through the neck to set the neck ID closer to caliber diameter. Some are worse than others but typically the neck will sized down to .005" or so below caliber and then the expander resizes the neck back to .003" or so below caliber. I have a FL die for my 375 Ruger that will size the neck down to .361" with the expander removed


The inside dimension of the neck will depend upon your die and how thick your neck brass is

You can remove the expander easily by just unscrewing it.

If you want to size without an expander your options are the Lee Collet or a bushing die. A bushing die operates by installing a specific size bushing into the die so that the OUTSIDE DIAMETER of the neck dimension is controlled. For instance if you have a 30-06 and brass with a neck thickness of .015" per side and you want a bullet grip of .002" then the math would be:

.308"-.002"=.306"+.015"+.015"=.336"

You would buy a .336" bushing and size.

HOWEVER, IMO the Lee Collet is a better die because with the bushing die you are pushing all the neck thickness variations to the inside of the neck where they will cause a variance in bullet grip and cause concentricity problems.

2. No. You could send a die to Redding and tell them you want a die with an interior neck dimension of .336" like in the above example, but they would probably just tell you to buy a bushing die. If you have very very consistent neck thickness then sizing with a FL die without the expander can be an excellent way to size, but that happens very seldom.

Also if you get a different box of brass with a different average neck thickness, then your die will not size the ID to the same dimension. That will totally change your POI and accuracy from previous load

3. Answered in 2

4. No. A Body Die does not size the neck, it only contacts the case along the body and will push the shoulder back if adjusted deep enough. So it does not size the neck. A FL die sizes the neck also.

5. Neck turning has nothing to do with FL sizing. You outside neck turn if you have a tight chamber, your neck brass is extra thick and the brass won't fit your chamber with enough clearance or to make your neck brass thickness more consistent. For example I have several rebarrels with tight necked chambers. Example my 280AI with a .313" neck



So with a caliber diameter of .284" and wanting a .003" neck clearance in the chamber the math would be

.284"(caliber)+.003"(chamber clearance)=.287"
.313"(chamber neck)-.287"=.026"(total neck brass)/2=.013"(brass thickness per side)

The last box of brass I got had a consistent .014" neck thickness so I have to outside neck turn the brass to have it fit the chamber easily and have the chamber clearance I want.

Some brass like WSSM's have a significant neck thickness like .017" and some chambers are not large enough to give a comfortable margin so outside neck turning is useful

If your brass varies from say .013" on the thin side to .015" on the thick side (happens more often than most would believe), then outside neck turning the thickness to the thinner dimension will have some beneficial effects. However the neck will be off center and will not recenter until after firing



To outside neck turn you will need a ball micrometer and the turning tool. A hand turner is much better than a trimmer mounted one and you only have to outside turn once on new cases then they will be good for the life of that brass.

6. You measure how far you are bumping the shoulder back or how far it is moving by using a headspace tool. We went through the tools and how to measure in this thread

http://www.opticstalk.com/300-win-mag-headspace_topic37640.html


You have the best combination of dies with the Lee Collet and Redding Body Die and can use the tools in the referenced thread or by setting your rifle up and moving the shoulder back a minimum amount of ~.001" as explained in that thread

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2013 at 16:28
Gil P. View Drop Down
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Thank you for the very informative post. I believe you have answered all of my questions, and ill take a look at the other thread as you suggested.
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