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My first of the year...

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Sgt. D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/25/2020 at 20:17
No defensive, agreeing with you, manage depending on your goals.
A doe fawn can breed at 6 months if she has reached about 70lbs by that age. Further south where Dan is they may only need be 60lbs. And though WT deer breeding is triggered mainly by photoperiod it is not exclusive. Fawn health and weight can trigger a cycle. Once the "rut" is typically triggered by photoperiod a doe will cycle every 28 +/- days until she conceives. Here in NC the rut typically starts mid October. and I have seen rut activity repeat into late January. That causes a wide spread of fawn drops. In Dan's area with the population density and as long or longer period of repeat estrus cycles there is no doubt that he is seeing spotted fawns just about yr round. It also suggest that the buck doe ratio is way off. When you have 5+ doe per buck some doe are not getting bred until late season. And she is going to drop about 200 days after conception when ever that is.
 
Dan if you have hunters for the hungry or some other organization that process deer for feeding the homeless and poor you have a perfect means of getting the population that you have better in check. Over the past 10+ yrs we have donated 100's of deer to our local processor. We are helping feed people, making landowners happy and providing ourselves a healthy fairly well managed deer population.
 
Salute!
 
 
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2020 at 11:44
Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

No defensive, agreeing with you, manage depending on your goals.
A doe fawn can breed at 6 months if she has reached about 70lbs by that age. Further south where Dan is they may only need be 60lbs. And though WT deer breeding is triggered mainly by photoperiod it is not exclusive. Fawn health and weight can trigger a cycle. Once the "rut" is typically triggered by photoperiod a doe will cycle every 28 +/- days until she conceives. Here in NC the rut typically starts mid October. and I have seen rut activity repeat into late January. That causes a wide spread of fawn drops. In Dan's area with the population density and as long or longer period of repeat estrus cycles there is no doubt that he is seeing spotted fawns just about yr round. It also suggest that the buck doe ratio is way off. When you have 5+ doe per buck some doe are not getting bred until late season. And she is going to drop about 200 days after conception when ever that is.
 
Dan if you have hunters for the hungry or some other organization that process deer for feeding the homeless and poor you have a perfect means of getting the population that you have better in check. Over the past 10+ yrs we have donated 100's of deer to our local processor. We are helping feed people, making landowners happy and providing ourselves a healthy fairly well managed deer population.
 
Salute!

No "Hunters for the Hungry" in this area.  Years ago, I tried to get some interest and no one wanted to deal with it.  Fully agree with your approach, methods... very difficult to implement single-handedly.  
It is interesting to note that the wildlife management group has established three hunting zones...A, B, C.  I am in C... the ever-changing rules this year made it so that deer season started 15 Oct for bow hunting (either sex), 23 Nov (gun) - 1 Dec "either sex", then bucks only until 21-31Dec (either sex), then bucks only until 10 Feb.  Only 3 bucks are allowed for the entire season (gun) and 1 must have at least 4 points on one side.  I don't know who comes up with this idiocy, but it has been this way for the last 4 or 5 years.  Zone C is probably the most heavily overpopulated with does.  5 does to 1 buck is a very conservative estimate around here.  A couple of years, before my test schedule got outrageously busy, i hunted only does which was kind of like shooting squirrels.  That was tough for me... I grew up in Texas in a time and place where shooting a doe was a mortal sin... if you got a doe tag and used it, you were a pariah.  I still have initial reservations, but have overcome the idea that it will send me straight to hell.  
 
 
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Sgt. D View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2020 at 14:33
"That was tough for me... I grew up in Texas in a time and place where shooting a doe was a mortal sin..."
 
My dad's generation was that way and have had to wrestle with a good portion of my own generation to get them to see the facts.
 
"I don't know who comes up with this idiocy, but it has been this way for the last 4 or 5 years."
 
We have the same stubborn know it all biologist here. This is offensive but true. They hire biologist from up north and let them run things like the north. It simply doesn't fly!! We recently had a public forum with our wildlife biologist and though they were respectful and open to discussion. When all was said and done they assured us that nothing was going to change any time soon. And they admittedly relied on scued and faulty statistics.
Bottom line it is just as politically operated as every other gov agency. They implement cookie cutter tactics and what doesn't fit is ignored.
 
" very difficult to implement single-handedly."
 
Yes it is but, Don't let that discourage you from starting. I put off getting started for two yrs for the same reason. And when I did start it seemed like a waste of time. But when the first three yrs had passed and I saw the result it was clearly worth it. And the more I could show people in the area photo results the more people wanted to get on board. At some point the state may get it's act together, or it may never. But you can make some change in your area. Find a few guys you know you can trust to take only what you say they can and let them use their tags to help you adjust your population. They get to hunt and you get faster results.
 
Salute!
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 08:35
Alabama, thank goodness, does not have "tags", per se.  Recently the state has implemented "game check" which requires you to notify within 48 hours what you took...  It is just a bureaucratic impediment.  Kind of like when an illegal alien asked Obama what would happen if he tried to vote.  Obama said "if you want to vote, vote... nobody's watching."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 09:29
Soon as they figure out that there is $ to be made you can kiss that system good bye!!
Our WL commission is all about revenue. Constantly thinkin up ways to stick it to hunters for more. They cut our antlered deer harvest to only 2 a season. Chatter is they are looking at offering two extra for $. In the bear season they asked for a molar so they could monitor age and health. It was voluntary but now they want to make it mandatory and fine anyone who doesn't. They no longer "serve" the public. they have made themselves "lords" over the public. They aren't interested in quality management. They are interested in funding their retirement. Politics and greed. Sickening..................
 
Salute!
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 10:21
I HATE Demigods!!!!!

Sounds just like your typical Public School System Administrators and their GOD pro-tem the School Board Superintendent.
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 10:22
Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

Soon as they figure out that there is $ to be made you can kiss that system good bye!!
Our WL commission is all about revenue. Constantly thinkin up ways to stick it to hunters for more. They cut our antlered deer harvest to only 2 a season. Chatter is they are looking at offering two extra for $. In the bear season they asked for a molar so they could monitor age and health. It was voluntary but now they want to make it mandatory and fine anyone who doesn't. They no longer "serve" the public. they have made themselves "lords" over the public. They aren't interested in quality management. They are interested in funding their retirement. Politics and greed. Sickening..................
 
Salute!
Exactly... and it is getting worse.  We need to take our lands back.  
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There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 10:22
Don't be foolish enough to think your allowed to question their actions or edicts....  Hammer Hit
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
--Thomas Jefferson



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budperm Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 10:23
Definitely time for a "Changing of The Guards"
"Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 10:39
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 11:37
They've appointed themselves to do that!!
 
 
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 15:18
Unfortunately it’s damn near impossible to implement a quality deer management program on small acreage, free-range properties when you’re surrounded by multiple other small acreage properties that are also hunted. The effort you expend is for naught if “your” deer just wander onto the neighbor’s property and said neighbor takes the “if it’s brown, it’s down” approach and doesn’t manage the habitat. 

The only way you can really do it is if you can get a large block of contiguous landowners to form a co-op where all share the same goals and agree to the same harvest standards and habitat enhancement.
Ted


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 15:48
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Unfortunately it’s damn near impossible to implement a quality deer management program on small acreage, free-range properties when you’re surrounded by multiple other small acreage properties that are also hunted. The effort you expend is for naught if “your” deer just wander onto the neighbor’s property and said neighbor takes the “if it’s brown, it’s down” approach and doesn’t manage the habitat. 

The only way you can really do it is if you can get a large block of contiguous landowners to form a co-op where all share the same goals and agree to the same harvest standards and habitat enhancement.
Right on... EXACTLY what I am up against...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scrumbag Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 16:05
Same issues here. Small patches of land and disjointed / non-existent management plans
Was sure I had a point when I started this post...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 17:21
Originally posted by RifleDude RifleDude wrote:

Unfortunately it’s damn near impossible to implement a quality deer management program on small acreage, free-range properties when you’re surrounded by multiple other small acreage properties that are also hunted. The effort you expend is for naught if “your” deer just wander onto the neighbor’s property and said neighbor takes the “if it’s brown, it’s down” approach and doesn’t manage the habitat. 

The only way you can really do it is if you can get a large block of contiguous landowners to form a co-op where all share the same goals and agree to the same harvest standards and habitat enhancement.
Just one point here... I don't consider any deer "mine", unless and while they are on my property.  When they leave, anyone can take a shot.  I don't mind feeding them so that they are well nourished and prime when they go somewhere else.  I just hate that people have so little respect for the wildlife and others that they will shoot anything, anywhere, any time with no consideration for what they are doing to the "herds" overall.  Kind of like the "heroic" buffalo hunters... in the 1500's there were about 30 million buffalo in the US, in the late 1800's, around 1880-1890, there were only about 100 left.  In the early 1900's, deer were virtually completely eliminated from Alabama and if left to their own devices there are those who really would not care if it occurred again... they'd just find something else to kill off.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RifleDude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2020 at 19:37
Oh sure...agreed. By “your,” I just meant bucks of interest that you’ve been watching, that you deem have genetic potential, and that you hope will live long enough to give you a shot opportunity when they reach their potential.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sgt. D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2020 at 09:27
It is frustrating for sure. But the fact that you have those deer show that they prefer (to some extent) your property. You can make a given location more appealing to a deer population. If you can provide a sanctuary area (10 to 40 acres that no one bothers) a constant clean water source and a food source that they can't resist. Then selective harvest without too much human presents. The population density in your area looks to be your bigger challenge right now. Try to get the doe population down to 3 to 1 if possible. then your buck and doe quality management will be more effective.
 
Salute!
Take care of Soldiers, Show em how its done and do it with em, Run to the Fight & and hold your ground! I die my men go home! If you're a NCO and this ain't you. GET OUT! GOD BLESS AMERICA!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeltFed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2020 at 10:20
I have a cousin that makes trail cameras and has 300 plus acres. He manages his land, has food plots, etc. for the deer, cameras everywhere, and lets no one hunt there except himself and business interest.
He had a huge buck he had been watching for a couple of years. The year he decided to hunt it, it wandered onto a neighbors 7 acre property and a 12 year old kid killed it.
Nothing he could do but be heart broke.

Had another cousin in the same area that was killing deer like groundhogs, in the summer time because they were tearing his bean fields up.
Life's concerns should be about the 120lb pack your trying to get to the top of the mountain, and not the rock in your boot.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2020 at 18:49
Originally posted by Sgt. D Sgt. D wrote:

It is frustrating for sure. But the fact that you have those deer show that they prefer (to some extent) your property. You can make a given location more appealing to a deer population. If you can provide a sanctuary area (10 to 40 acres that no one bothers) a constant clean water source and a food source that they can't resist. Then selective harvest without too much human presents. The population density in your area looks to be your bigger challenge right now. Try to get the doe population down to 3 to 1 if possible. then your buck and doe quality management will be more effective.
 
Salute!

I intended to take several does this year, the rules got changed and I was unable to follow through.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kickboxer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2020 at 18:51
Originally posted by BeltFed BeltFed wrote:

I have a cousin that makes trail cameras and has 300 plus acres. He manages his land, has food plots, etc. for the deer, cameras everywhere, and lets no one hunt there except himself and business interest.
He had a huge buck he had been watching for a couple of years. The year he decided to hunt it, it wandered onto a neighbors 7 acre property and a 12 year old kid killed it.
Nothing he could do but be heart broke.

Had another cousin in the same area that was killing deer like groundhogs, in the summer time because they were tearing his bean fields up.
yep, those things happen... all the time.  
Opinion,untempered by fact,is ignorance.

There are some who do not fear death... for they are more afraid of not really living
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