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my first 308, 600 yard+ capable

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 16:01
stork23raz View Drop Down
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Well i got sucked into HP shooting last year and now, so 100 yards really doesnt hold my attention anymore,. so wanting to broaden my shooting horizon even more, maybe try to get into 600 FTR, then one day maybe 1000FT/R(after upgrades and accurizing). Not so much to win, but to improve my skill. Become good at distance shooting. I want to keep it more a tactical style so i can use it for other stuff, not just have  BIG Fclass rifle that has huge barrel and weighs a ton and is limited to paper punching.  Basically i am wanting to have a 308 capable of about  1 moa at 600 for now.  It will be upgaded later. Since i want to upgrade it down the road I  have pretty much decided on a Remington(this will be my first remington, hope they dont let me down in the accuracy department since i mostly shoot savages and ARs), most likely a 700P.  The rifle itself will remain stock for a while though, so lots of shooting will be done in its factory condition. Which is why i planning on going with the P instead of the varmint. Probably go with badger 20moa base and MK4 rings.  I was thinking a Leupold MK 4 ,  http://swfa.com/Leupold-45-14x40-Mark-4-LRT-30mm-Riflescope-P2549.aspx but im not sure, thats why i am here
I 've never own any Leupolds, but it seems like they get alot of grief on forums,  and I'm not really sure why. miltary used them for a bit, target shooters have been using them for a long time,So if you could give any info on this scope and whether or not you thing it would be correct application.  Any other recommendations are welcome, my guidelines are it has to be variable power, target or tactical turrets, duplex is good mil-based is better, durable, REPEATABLE. and some good glass for the money.
 
Also if there are any critques on the build in general, have at it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 16:16
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Whats your price range?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 16:24
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The 700 P is a fine rifle,I used to have one till I purchased my first Remington 700 SS 5R milspec in .308 then it got traded for a second 5R.
My first has a 24" barrel & weights in at 13 lbs 9 ounces,it is strictly a target shooter.My second is a hunting walking around with, 8 pound fly weight with a 20"barrel.
I have badger rails & aadland rings on both.Riding with 2 different German scopes!
With a little work these are about as good as they get out of the box.
If you can't find a 5R,you might even want to look at the remmy Sendaro before the Police model.Also take a look at SWFA SS 5-20scope.Right now they have a great group buy going on.That scope has better glass than the Mk4,& I beleive is also a mach for alot less money.SWFA will stand behind their product 100%.
Hope this helps your quest for a fine .308......
 
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The reason Leuppys get so much grief, is for the most part, they are over priced for what you get. For the price of that scope, you can pick up a Vortex 4-16x50, that has a FFP reticle and matching mil turrets and illumination. And on top of all that, most consider the glass better on the Vortex as well...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 18:14
stork23raz View Drop Down
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Whats your price range?
under a 1000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 18:44
stork23raz View Drop Down
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Originally posted by billyburl2 billyburl2 wrote:

The reason Leuppys get so much grief, is for the most part, they are over priced for what you get. For the price of that scope, you can pick up a Vortex 4-16x50, that has a FFP reticle and matching mil turrets and illumination. And on top of all that, most consider the glass better on the Vortex as well...


Is a Vortex PST really in the same class as the Mk4 or is just have the bells and whistles of FFP and illuminated reticle?
 Tracking and  repeatability which is the highest priority.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 19:07
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I don't have one. I skipped this price range, and bought a 5-20 SS. But from all reports, the PST  is very reliable. Probably more so than the Leuppy. Which in recent years has had "issues". On this forum just a couple of threads down is a report of canted reticle on a Mark 4. Is that to say they are all crap? Not at all. But for my money, I will go elsewhere.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 19:50
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I would prefer an r5 mil spec remmington to the standard 700P  -- by a LOT. Savage makes some fine rifles also however at long range the Remmingtons I have had have performed very well.  Tikka rifles made by SAKO also tend to be very good shooting rifles without the weight and bulk of the Tactical guns. The thing I like about the R5 is it has the same rifling as the military M24 and is   11.25 in twist to the rifling so it is designed to shoot the heavier bullets 175gr and 190 gr bullets, and shoots them very well from that twist, but it will also shoot the 165 - 168 gr also.  Past 300 yds the heavy bullets work better.  I would be fairly comfortable saying put your money into the rifle initially and buy a fixed power Super Sniper in the mil quad reticle for $299.95 rather than buying the Leupold initially.  I have two of the Mk4 scopes and several of the Super Sniper scopes and you will get more bang for the buck with the 5-20x50 Super Sniper or the 3-9x42 Super Sniper which is the bargain of the line.  Once you get to where you are really ready to upgrade from a fixed power Super Sniper you will be wanting expensive glass and top of the line is Heinsoldt with several other brands being pretty good . Example: I would be really happy to have a U.S. Optics scope and if Im lucky will be able to afford one sometime, but since most of us have to make choices on how to spend limited funds I say buy the R5 pick a fixed power Super Sniper probably the SS16x42MQ for long range daylight use, this scope will be out in the next couple months.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 21:00
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Originally posted by stork23raz stork23raz wrote:


Is a Vortex PST really in the same class as the Mk4 or is just have the bells and whistles of FFP and illuminated reticle?
 Tracking and  repeatability which is the highest priority.
 
They are comparable.
 
I have both the 4-16X50 PST (SFP) and a Leupy 4.5-15X50 M4 right now.
 
The Leupold has a noticeably better image at max power do to good contrast.  The Vortex has a much better eye box.  The Leupy varies eye relief substantially.  The Vortex is consistent from 4 to 16.
 
Both track dead nuts.  I tested them on a Horus Vision Calibration target.  I am very confident in the PST adjustments.
 
Neither had a canted reticle to the adjustments. 
 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2012 at 21:11
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Another vote for the Rem 700 SS 5R. Hard to find, but very well worth the effort to find one. And actually I do know of one. PM me if you want to know where.

And with a budget of $1000 I would try to scrap up another $50 for the SS 5-20 non illuminated. It is $250 off right now and would probably be the last scope you would need to buy for long range.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2012 at 22:09
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

I would prefer an r5 mil spec remmington to the standard 700P  -- by a LOT. Savage makes some fine rifles also however at long range the Remmingtons I have had have performed very well.  Tikka rifles made by SAKO also tend to be very good shooting rifles without the weight and bulk of the Tactical guns. The thing I like about the R5 is it has the same rifling as the military M24 and is   11.25 in twist to the rifling so it is designed to shoot the heavier bullets 175gr and 190 gr bullets, and shoots them very well from that twist, but it will also shoot the 165 - 168 gr also.  Past 300 yds the heavy bullets work better.  I would be fairly comfortable saying put your money into the rifle initially and buy a fixed power Super Sniper in the mil quad reticle for $299.95 rather than buying the Leupold initially.  I have two of the Mk4 scopes and several of the Super Sniper scopes and you will get more bang for the buck with the 5-20x50 Super Sniper or the 3-9x42 Super Sniper which is the bargain of the line.  Once you get to where you are really ready to upgrade from a fixed power Super Sniper you will be wanting expensive glass and top of the line is Heinsoldt with several other brands being pretty good . Example: I would be really happy to have a U.S. Optics scope and if Im lucky will be able to afford one sometime, but since most of us have to make choices on how to spend limited funds I say buy the R5 pick a fixed power Super Sniper probably the SS16x42MQ for long range daylight use, this scope will be out in the next couple months.  

I agree, I would love to have a USO or S&B or something like that, but realistically i will probaly never have one, unless I get a huge raise at my current job and decided to get a few other ones on the side. Its not that i could never get it its just that it would take to many years of saving. About 1000, maybe 11 or 12, but really about 1000 is as much as I need to spend. (less if I can find a quality scope for that). About 2000 was my original limit, but it looks like i would be closer to 2200 , might even be 2500 if I go with the R5 rifle. So coming up with extra 500 will be hard enough.

What is the street price of an R5?  looks like most the prices i found online are about 1050-1200, Im not quite sure what my local dealer will be able to get it for. I figured the 700p was gonna be about 900+tax+background check fee, so about 1000 total.

I have a SS10 mildot scope I purchase about 2-3 years ago, I have it on my savage 22lr, it is good scope,(do really like the milquad reticle, wish i had that in my current SS) but I was wanting something better for this rig. Would I be disappointed with the MK4 or feel like a over paid? Does the SS scope compare well it enough with most scopes under 1000 to not justify paying that much? Would I be better to get a simpler scope, just target turrets and plain reticle, in order to get a better glass and tracking for the money. Id rather have better tracking/glass/durability over mil reticle, illuminated reticles or tactical turrets.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2012 at 23:28
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I think you would feel as if you over paid if you have an SS 10x. With out illumination and substially better glass for 299 bucks vice over a grand on a mk4. This is just my opinion I'd be sick.

I used a mk4 10x40 mil dot for almost 2 years in the service and no way I would pay a grand for it over an SS. The variable power models would be nice but with vortex and others out there offering similar scopes with illumination I would not buy a mk4.

The word is out on good customer service selling products. Swfa and vortex are good in these categories aswell..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2012 at 11:22
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You all are talkn about 5-20x50, SWFA website  says its still 1300, how do ya get the $250 off on the scope and how long does the deal last? If I could get that for 1050, I'd probably go with that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2012 at 14:35
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Go to the top of the Optics page & you will see the coupon deals on the left side top of the page,it's listed under SWFA on face book.If you still can't find it give the good  people at SWFA a call!
 
 
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Originally posted by stickbow46 stickbow46 wrote:

Go to the top of the Optics page & you will see the coupon deals on the left side top of the page,it's listed under SWFA on face book.If you still can't find it give the good  people at SWFA a call!
 
 


Found it but it says the 250 off the non-illuminated 5-20 deal ended on the 23rd. oh well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2012 at 15:37
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I would still call them tell them your  situation & that you just found out about the buy,maybe they will still help you out one way or another.If that doesn't work try graveling & begging that once helped meWink
 
Good luck & do get that 5R you will never be sorry!
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the leupold rings i've seen suck. stick with badger or seekins. the 5R's are a sick factory rifle. the SPS tactical hogue stock kinda sucks, but the barreled action is pretty good. a buddy has one on an AI 2.0 chassis and it's sub moa to 800 with 178gr handloads.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2012 at 04:52
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You may want to include a press, dies, brass, primers, powder and bullets in your budget. I have found my group size depends as much on the ammo as the rifle/scope combo. Match grade ammo is expensive. Happy shooting. SB.Cool
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2012 at 09:59
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Well I guess if I can come up with the funds i will try to get the 5R, Badger base &rings, SS 5-20x50. If if  i dont I will have to go with 700p, still try to get the SS, hopefully. 

Thanks for the help.
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See if you can swing the Combo Group Buy then sell the 1-6 for around 700-750 and both of you will make out.  Someone will buy the 1-6 at that price I am fairly certain...quickly.
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Originally posted by stork23raz stork23raz wrote:

Well I guess if I can come up with the funds i will try to get the 5R, Badger base &rings, SS 5-20x50. If if  i dont I will have to go with 700p, still try to get the SS, hopefully. 

Thanks for the help.


I would still go with the 5R over the 700P and consider a SS fixed 10x HD for $800. 10x with good glass is more than enough to go well past 600yds.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2012 at 12:02
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Also on the sample list they have a 10x HD for $650.

http://www.samplelist.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-HD-Rifle-Scope-DEMO-B-P54714.aspx
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/28/2012 at 13:30
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10X HD is an excellent choice and you can save some more by getting TPS rail and rings.  I'd find a used 5R or buy a new Savage FCP with the McMillan stock from the factory.  Whole lot of capabilities right there.  Well beyond most of our skill levels right away.  Stock Savage reputation as a shooter is damn good the last few years.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2012 at 10:16
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I will leave the rifle choices to the rifle guys.
The 6-24 Sightron S-III with the MOA Reticle is a real nice piece of glass, tough, and a great reticle.
It is a best buy for what you get for your money.  I have several S-III 6-24's.
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Originally posted by Ernie Bishop Ernie Bishop wrote:

I will leave the rifle choices to the rifle guys.
The 6-24 Sightron S-III with the MOA Reticle is a real nice piece of glass, tough, and a great reticle.
It is a best buy for what you get for your money.  I have several S-III 6-24's.
I have only heard great things about the sightron glass and tracking. I hear its one of hte best buys for the money. I would definitley consider it over the vortex. It originally was one of my options, but I have not heard anything about their durability and ruggedness. Most of what I have heard and read is from paper punchers.
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