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multiple targets, various ranges

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2008 at 10:45
jtom66 View Drop Down
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Background information may be helpful here...Let me start out by saying I am new to long range shooting. I grew up hunting white tail deer but most of my shots were in thickets - less than 50 yards. I have a farm and starting last year began thinning the herd by shooting does out of my bean fields mainly to protect my investment but also to manage the herd. All this with a permit from the game warden of course. We have a big problem in West TN with deer overpopulation. It's crazy. It may seem like this thread should go in the hunting section, but this is not really a hunting question.

I have a FN PBR XP .308 with a Kahles 3-12 x 56 Multizero. I purchased this package last year and it will consistently shoot 1MOA groups. I shoot Remington Premier Accutip 165 GR boat tail which seem to be a good balance between a long range bullet and a hunting load. I do not reload. The glass is great on the Kahles but it is not really set up to change elevations quickly to engage multiple targets. Let me explain: I have a couple of elevated shooting blinds set up on the tops of ridges. My targets (bean eating mammals) will appear, like ghosts, anywhere from 50 - 600 yards away. I may engage one target at 100 yards and then spot another at 475 immediately afterwards. I know the ethical concerns of shooting at an animal at 600 yards. But then again, if you ever saw a 200 acre soybean field ravaged by bean-eaters, then you might take a few long shots as well - especially if all your profit was being eaten in front of your eyes.

I would really appreciate advice from the folks on this forum that have experience engaging multiple targets at various ranges. I plan on moving the Kahles to another rifle, I would sell it but don't know if I could get my investment back. I have been looking at a Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x50 and thought about having the custom shop put on M2 or M3 target knobs, with a TMR reticle. I like the idea of being able to achieve max range in one revolution or less.

My budget for glass is $1250 total.

Your thoughts on the Leupold? M2 or M3? If I go with M3 will I be able to set POI accurately in the initial zero? Is M2 a good compromise?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2008 at 16:19
Duce View Drop Down
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I would look here at the sample list , Zeiss, & Kahles etc  you are used to good glass and at 600 yards you need good glass.  Another thought would be Nightforce NXS
 
Duce  Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2008 at 16:36
trigger29 View Drop Down
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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Zeiss Rapid-z reticle scope. no knobs to turn, just choose the appropriate mark and shoot. A Zeiss with the Rapid-Z 600 will give you marks every 100 yards with a 200 yard zero they will be at about 301,398,501,600yds. This is with the mag. set on 9. This also has 50 yard increments between these starting at 350. After 500 they turn to 25 yard increments.
 
 
 
I don't know if you want to dial in your adjustments, but this seems faster. I figured  the multizero, if set up would be very good for this.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2008 at 16:39
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Have you considered purchasing an ADI (Angle Degree Indicator) ?  An ADI should go for about $200 or less.  It mounts on the base of your scope and would allow you to make quick acquistion on long range targets.  You could zero your rifle at 200 yds bullet hits at around 100 yds would about 1.5 inches high from point of aim and about 3 inches low at 300 yds. approximatlely depending on your ballistics used. from than on set up targets at various distances checking where bullet hits using the ADI and record the data.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2008 at 16:52
jtom66 View Drop Down
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Thanks for the insight.  I may try to re set my Kahles multi zero with the starting point at 200 instead of 100.  This may allow me enough MOA adjustment to set my last mark at 450 or 500. 

I will also research the Rapid Z and the ADI.  That should be enough to keep me up until 1AM each of next 3 nights?
 
Thanks guys!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2008 at 17:05
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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as far as the Zeiss Rapid Z reticles the Rapid Z1000 is designed for .308. another alternative is http://www.kentonindustries.com/ on a scope of your choice from the list of ones they make knobs for which does include the Leupold Mark 4 4.5-14x50 which is a fine scope and quite capable of doing what you are wanting to do. It's not Kahles or $wavorski glass but it is still very nice glass and has 100 moa of internal adjustment and is extremely reliable under the worst of conditions.  I would not hesitate to buy one. I have two of the Mark 4 long range tactical scopes they are the choice of professionals who engage targets that shoot back.  Nightforce, S&B, & U.S. Optics are better but Mk 4 scopes are still pretty good and anyone who thinks they aren't probably has never owned one.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/06/2008 at 17:39
jtom66 View Drop Down
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If I went with the Leupold, would you recommend having there custom shop do M2 knobs or have Kenton Industries make one for my specific load.  I just called and spoke to Mark and he said he could make a knob for a Leupold Mark 4 for around $70.  He thought he could get me to 550 yards in one revolution beginning with a 100 yard zero.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2008 at 07:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/07/2008 at 09:35
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500 yds with just about any 308 load is 10 moa with just about any scope. doesn't matter what turrets your using the only difference between leo and kenton is they mark the points  on the turrets for you. you could just as easily-- bigger problem here is you don't know the velocity and bc of your load, so any attempt by an outside source will be a rough guess. -- and until getting that , discussion is a six pack of this or a six pack of that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2008 at 11:39
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jtom66, why not get the Nikon Monarch or Buckmaster 4-16 with the BDC reticle? Shooting the 165gr bullet you will have no problem knockin' 'em dead from arms length to your 600 yard shot. Just a little practice to perfect your hold, (took me about an hour on my Savage 10FP Tactical .308) in relation to the reticles circles and you can't miss. Your deer problem will not be a problem for much longer once you get this scope.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/08/2008 at 19:45
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Or PM me your address and I'll help you thin your herd!!!!!  I keep 75% of the meat thou, need somethin' for driving 250 miles and using my own bullets?  LOL
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2008 at 09:35
learjet View Drop Down
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jtom, u have one really great thing goin for u....home field advantage
 
whatever scope you choose, you could setup targets each 100yds in the field you are shooting in, and get very accurate comeups for each range. heck id leave rangemarker/windflags out all the time. in this situatiion a ranging reticle isnt necessary, so your choices are unlimited, as long as the scope you choose has the elevation you require. you may also consider checking into weather you can get a sloped base for your rifle, and just keep using the kahles.
 
lear
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/09/2008 at 10:42
3_tens View Drop Down
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I used to hunt W. TN when I lived in Martin so I know your delima with the rodents. But I don't see yours. Use the use the components of the scope that you have. Put  the top of the bottom post for 100yds if you need a zero at that close range. Then set the locking dials for longer stages using the cross hair. this will give you much more range and you still have the qualty glass of the Kahles. 100 Yd zero is too short for shooting with the qualty of shooting that you have access to. Could be a great excuse to get the Rapid Z Zeiss too. Then you have two good rigs so if the barrels get hot. Get a 6" .357 for that west Tenn. brush. Fast on sight, easy to carry and has plenty of knock down out past 75 Yds.
I will be going back to Nashville in a few weeks so PM if you need help.
Have gun. Will travel.
Lile


Edited by 3_tens - August/09/2008 at 10:50
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/11/2008 at 10:39
jtom66 View Drop Down
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Thanks guys.  I should have posted a follow-up message back a month or so ago.  Thanks to a detailed PM from pell1203, I discovered that I made a mistake in calculating my ballistics chart.  A rookie mistake - too much time looking at the ballistics charts and not enough trigger time.  Not to mention, not reading and having a clear understanding of the MZ function.  Long story short - I have re-set my zero to 200 yards and have enough adjustment to reach over 600 yards with the last MZ setting.  I am pleased with the Kahles and the MZ feature.
 
Jim
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2008 at 23:01
3_tens View Drop Down
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My offer to help still stands.  Roll%20Eyes
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2008 at 17:02
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Since you already have a multi-zero scope with great glass, why not use different zeros for different ranges?

I forget exactly how the system works, but you can store multiple zeros on the same turret: set each of the zeros to a different range, and rather than dope in exact range, put in the zero closet to the target range and make minor adjustments using the reticule.

Is there a reason that won't work?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2008 at 17:05
jtom66 View Drop Down
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it does now that i actually read the instructions and then went to the rangeYippee
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2008 at 04:06
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When all else fails, read the instructions!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2008 at 10:08
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