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Mounting Opinions X-Lock

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 07:00
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Hey everyone i am pretty new here but used to the forum quite a bit in my scope/base selection process.
Here's what I am looking at and would appreciate any advice i could get.

I recently purchased new a Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker w/Fluted Barrel chambered in 300 WSM. After careful debate ad much reading i decided to pair it with a Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x50mm CDS using the Talley one-piece X-Lock intermediate height bases. I also picked up a Flatline Opps Ranger scope level for hold over leveling.  

With all the parts in hand i hired a local gunsmith as my typical smith (Retired Marine Sniper) was retiring from the smithing business and he is over 2 hours away. I wanted this thing paired up right and shooting straight as i plan to take this on a quite a few long range big game hunts.

I met with with the gentlemen and he seemed to now his stuff alright, but it seemed he was generally a restorationist.   

I picked it up and right away wasn't super pleased as the ring height was too low not allowing the scope to be slid back for proper eye relief without the bell hitting the barrel. This of course meant the scope turrets were nearly rammed up against the front mount not centered over the bolt as i prefer to see. However being a Leupold the relief was generous and it seemed to work so i took the gun home. Upon a closer look more things started to catch my eye.  For starters the crosshairs were not perfectly level. With the scope level centered there was about a 1/8 degree cant in the cross hairs. Upon further investigation the upper and lower halves of the scope rings did not appear to be torqued evenly left to right or front to back (4 bolt rings). The front and rear right side had an 1/16 inch gap but when i looked at the left there was nearly an 1/8" gap on the front with slightly less on the rear mount.

I guess my question hear is are this issues going to affect the accuracy of the gun? I did not witness him mounting the scope but I wonder what other corners were cut. Should i bring the rig back to him and ask him to re-mount the scope once i get the proper height rings from Talley? I would do it myself but i am a little strapped for cash after the gun and scope investment so i don't have the money to buy the tools right now. 

Any advice?    

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 07:47
bugsNbows View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
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bowsNbugs

Joined: March/10/2008
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Accuracy certainly can be effected... either through a poor installation or through your lack of confidence in such. I would disassemble and start over ... doing it yourself. Now is the time to learn and (even if trial and error is necessary) get it perfect. I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box and I can do it so, in all likelihood, you can too. Go for it. Good luck.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 11:02
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Optics Jedi Master
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A photo would be helpful.

With direct-mount rings, unlike rail-mounted rings, you have no options for spacing.  To address this, you really have to pick the optic that best fits the space.  It might be that your ring/scope combination aren't ideal.

Next, on the cant, are you basing this on some definitive metric or are your shouldering the rifle and approximating?  A cant of 1/8th degree, if accurate, is pretty damn specific - and that level of specificity and precision is unusual for someone who would let another human being mount his scope.  Additionally, is it just the reticle that is canted (it is a Leupold, after all) or is the entire scope canted?

On the gap spacing, if:
1.  Torque is correct
2.  Neither ring half is touching the other...

It is more a cosmetic issue than a technical issue.

On reading your description again, I am confused by the front-to-back (left-to-right makes sense.)  Are you comparing evenness of front ring to back ring, or front screw to back screw on the same ring half?


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 11:53
koshkin View Drop Down
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Dark Lord of Optics

Joined: June/15/2004
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1/8 degree cant in the scope is nothing.  

The other issues you point out are mostly a matter of cosmetics and poor, but largely benign, workmanship.

If you do not like the way it looks, feel free to redo it.

Generally, you should go shoot it and if the eye relief works well for you and the scope stays zeroed, learn to live with the cosmetics.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 12:19
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Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


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Thanks for your response. It would appear as thought scope reticle was not properly aligned so the tube itself is twisted in the mounts. The 1/8th of degree is approximate. It could be more but it is definitely noticeable. Unfortunately i do not have any way of leveling the gun so that i could attempt to definitively check the cant of the scope (unless you have any recommendations on how to do this).

The Gap i speak of is the gap between the upper half and lower half of the scope ring. two of the gaps are close to equal and the other two are not. the screws all appeared to be torqued equally on each respective side but the gaps are not consistent which too my mind means the tops were not properly tightened in the proper fashion rather one side was tightened before the other so the gap is different

With the proper size rings the fit and finish would be much better but it if shoots its shoots it doesn't matter how it looks. I wanted to get the lowest rings possible to keep the scope as low to the barrel as possible.  

I guess the bottom line is here i need to buy a kit with levels and do this myself with a plum line etc. 
I just wanted to be sure this wasnt going to cause big issues other than looking half-a@#.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 12:29
koshkin View Drop Down
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Dark Lord of Optics

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It is unlikely to cause issues if the rings are tightened properly.  If the gaps on one of the rings bother you, loosen that ring (keep the other one tightened) and re-tighten it with the gaps properly aligned.

Reticle alignment to the rifle is a very overblown issue.  The reticle has to to be aligned to the world, not really to the rifle.

Take a small level and attach it to the top of the scope turret using some easily removable double sided tap or a dab of rubber glue or something along those lines.  

Then set-up in whatever is the most common shooting position for you is.  You will notice that unless the buttpad on the rifle is adjustable (or you are using a bipod or something along those lines), the rifle is not going to be perfectly vertical.

That is simply how your body works: the buttpad of the stock is not perfectly vertical in your shoulder pocket.

On all the rifles that I shoot with a sling, I usually set my scopes up with a slight clockwise cant.  That way the reticle is vertical with respect to what I see, while the gun is slightly canted.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 13:51
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Optics GrassHopper
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Good stuff and thanks for all your inputs. I guess it's time to do my own work. i feel i have the knowledge, resources (you guys and the net) and the mechanical skills to do this type of work without issue. Time to invest in some tools and start experimenting on my own. I can rebuild an engine and most 4 wheeled machines so i bet i could mount my own scopes.

I am sure it will shoot fine. He even used a light dusting of powdered resin on the rings since this will probably have some heavy recoil weighing it a just over 6 lbs.  i just wanted to make sure uneven torque wasn't going to damage my tube. Regardless of peoples opinions on brand i still dropped a good chunk of change on this thing so i want it done right.

i will try to upload some photos for folks.

Thanks

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 13:55
supertool73 View Drop Down
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Superstool

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Some rings instructions actually say to tighten one side completely before doing the other side. So i dont think there is a hard rule. A person should alawys follow the manufactures instructions.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/10/2015 at 16:31
bugsNbows View Drop Down
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bowsNbugs

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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Some rings instructions actually say to tighten one side completely before doing the other side. So i dont think there is a hard rule. A person should alawys follow the manufactures instructions.


TPS  TSR for example.
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