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Mounting A Scope - Marlin 1895XLR

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 10:08
MD Mike View Drop Down
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This is a great website.  I appreciate the knowledge most of you have and your willingness to share it.

 

I recently purchased a Marlin 1895XLR 45-70.  The iron sights that come with this gun are VERY average, in my opinion.  And at 63, my eyes are not what they once were.  But, for close work the factory sights and my eyes would be OK.  Anyway, in seeking to improve things, I have vascillated between the XS or Wild West Ghost Ring open sight, a Leupold FX-II 2.5x28 Scout set-up, and a Leupold VX-III 1.5-5x20 traditional mount.  Quick release rings would accompany the scopes.  The traditional mount, would of course, mean I would not be able to install a Ghost Ring sight - leaving me with the factory open sights with the scope removed.  I have decided I can live with that.  I have never used a scout scope set-up and I am concerned that I may not like it or it may be difficult for me to get used to - I'm interested in function, not so much in appearance.

 

Two questions: First - which option would those of you experienced with this gun/cartridge use? 

 

And Two - I have never installed a scope myself, but it appears straight forward.  If I scope it over the receiver I plan to use Warne two-piece steel bases with Warne or Leupold quick release rings.  If I scout scope it I will be using the XS Scout mount with Warne or Leupold quick release rings.  Is this something that should be left to a gunsmith or can one with average mechanical ability accomplish the task?

 

Thanks for any insight/information you guys can provide.

 

MD Mike



Edited by MD Mike
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 12:06
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  Cool gun. I have a traditional  45/ 70 1895SS and it's been a great gun.It's accurate and can drop some pretty big game with the right ammo. I used Leupold's one piece base and dovetail rings holding a Bushnell Elite 4200 1.5-6 ( still a couple out there , and it's a great fit ) .This set up has proved an ideal.  Mounting a scope on a Marlin isn't that hard, but you must pay attention to detail when doing so. Perhaps you could enlist the help of someone experienced in doing so, and they could "look over your shoulder" and walk you through it. On a big bore like the 45/70 , something loose could prove really painful.

An aside, I understand that Hornady has lowered the velocity of their new fodder  by about 200fps due to powder supply problems. You could give Buffalo Bore a try. They have  anywhere from 300 grain up to 405 gr stuff, and it's the hardest hitting ammo available.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 12:44
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Thanks for the input, Martin.  My main use for this gun is to carry it to and from trout streams in northern Idaho, Montana (near Glacier NP) and Alaska - I fly fish - and I have an aversion to grizzlies!!  Hence, the need for good balance, light weight, the ability to easily remove the scope prior to moving to and from (if I decide to even use a scope), and the possibility of simply improving the gun's iron sights with a ghost ring set-up and not worrying about scoping the rifle at all.  However, I am not willing to entirely rule out the possibility of hunting with rifle, hence the willingness to consider a scope - but, it's strictly a 200 yd gun max in my opinion; and more like 150 - 165  yds using loads/400+ gr. bullets from Garrett or BB.  Have you ever used a scout scope set-up?

Thanks



Edited by MD Mike
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 14:10
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MD Mike...........................You have an aversion to grizzlies??? Chicken!!....Just kidding! So do I, as we all do.........I have both scope options, from the factory, conventional mount or scout style mount on my 300 WSM Ruger M77 MK2 Frontier compact. As such, I own two scopes in order to adapt to any situation; short range, long range, open plains or in the brush, you name it...........Since your 45/70, as you say and I agree, is a 200 yd. max. rifle, then my advice would be to use a scout style scope............ Here is why! The scout style will give you quicker eye ball acquisition to the target. Meaning, you can keep both eyes open without squinting as you more quickly acquire the target. Another advantage is, as you acquire your target, you are fully aware of your surroundings with your open eye that is not looking through the scope. In shorter range situations, especially with the dangerous stuff, speed just may be a lifesaver...........I use the scout scope set up for my pig hunts and for smaller to BIG bear hunts; a Nikon 2.5x8 UCC EER. At the target range and longer yardage plains hunting, non dangerous game, I use my conventionally mounted Elite 4200 3x9 scope. The only small disadvantage using the scout styled set up is that your field of view decreases. In that regard though, nothing really to worry about!..............As they say! Better to be safe than sorry or dead! While fishing in grizzly territory, I`m going to kindly suggest, that you holster a non-scoped, very hi-powered handgun as a backup to your 45/70!!! What if your rifle malfunctions in a panic situation? If you haven`t already thought about it, just a little something extra to carefully think about?....I leave nothing to chance with any bear. My backup is a 4" S&W 500 using 400 grainers! 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 14:31
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Sounds like a great plan I would look up some of the information on mounting scopes with the search funtion at the top it is not as strightforward as it looks , alignment and torque are very important and have been discussed in detail on this forum. I am envious of your fishing trip I had planned to be in Alaska right now for salmon fishing with a friend that lives up there but had a minor delay. I carry a Ruger 454 super Alaskan fishing and my friend caries an old 375 H &H  just in case. I highly recomend a bear safey course if you have not taken one. Most bears would rather have the fish than you

 

Good luck great plan

 

Duce

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 18:54
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That's alot of gun to carry fishing. I would have gone with a stainless Marlin Guide Gun ( more compact) . However, for strictly to use as a Grizz deterrent ( no need for shots over 50 yds), I would skip traditional optics, cut  4 inches of the barrel, and stick with a ghost ring set up  or perhaps try a red-dot style site . If you opt to take it hunting some time in the future and go with a scout style scope, keep the magnification  from 1 on the bottom end to a max of 5 at the top end. Also, practice firing with both eyes open to afford a maximum field of view.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 19:29
MD Mike View Drop Down
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Those are all great ideas.  I intend to cut about 2" or so off the barrel.  I like what I hear, and what I suspected, regarding the advantage of using a scout-mounted scope.  Using quick-release rings on the XS scout base would offer great flexibility it seems to me, while allowing me to get rid of the weakest part of the rifle - the factory iron sights - and going with the ghost ring set-up.

 

I have thought a great deal about the use of a handgun, and before buying the rifle I had to come to a tough realization.  I have NEVER been worth a "Dam" with a handgun of any caliber.  If it weren't for gravity I could not hit dirt with one.  I have made every effort to become profficient - days and hours of practice - lessons, you name it!!  My chances of stopping a grizz would be better if I unzipped my fly and p*ssed in his direction than downing him with a well placed round from a handgun.  Now, a rifle - that's a different story.  Of course, the revolver is always on you, the rifle is not.  However, I think in real life there are VERY, VERY few among us that could effectively stop a charging grizz with a handgun as we are soiling our drawers in such an emergency.

 

Thanks - and would still like to hear other/differing opinions if they are out there.



Edited by MD Mike
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 20:24
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I really might be inclined to go with a new Aimpoint Comp M4 red dot running on AA which gives it almost eternal life as far as battery life and is combat tough and quite compact, or second choice with a Trijicon Accupoint 1.25-4 scope or a tripower or reflex. Something to acquire the target quickly in low light.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 21:09
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i realize your eyes arent what they used to be but to me its taboo to put a scope on a lever rifle, and to be honest with you if your worried about mr grizz the last thing you wanna worry about is a set of crosshairs, i agree with uf here maybe a red dot would be  the ticket for you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 21:34
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MD Mike...............Sorry about your eye sight, assuming that`s the reason for your reluctance in using a revolver as a backup. It was a good thought though!!!................By the way, I guarantee you that a big bear`s dirty butt will get alot dirtier when he quickly falls,,,,, before,,, I dirty my drawers!.....No toilet paper needed!

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 21:41
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might not need any tp but a new pair of toot of the looms and some new levi's will be in order
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 21:50
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I have 3 pr. new Levi`s AND some underwear! I thank you anyway! Won`t affect that recoil though or will the recoil cause any extra skid marks in my underwear! Nice try!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 21:51
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not the recoil making you sh*t yourself the close proximity of the bear may though
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 21:54
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Or any big bears for that matter, I don`t think will cause those extra skid marks!!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 21:55
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Yeah! I know! Just clarified that!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/20/2007 at 22:17
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11419 Aimpoint 9000L 30mm Red Dot Sight                                                                                       Aimpoint 9000L 30mm Red Dot Sight
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This hunting model is cheaper but doesnt run on the AA and have the life that the Comp M4 does.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2007 at 09:40
MD Mike View Drop Down
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Actually, folks, my eyesight is typical of a man in his 60s - that's to say, it isn't what it  used to be.  Consequently, hovering over iron sights at a 160 yd target is a bit more difficult for me now than it would have been 30 years ago - but my eyes are fine.

 

They are not the reason I don't go with a S&W .460 or .500.  As a last resort, "put it behind the bears ear and pull the trigger as your on the ground and he's tearing off muscle kind of protection", I think a handgun is superior.  As a "stop the charge" protective device, I would point out a couple of things - 1st, even with the .500 you're undergunned with a "juiced up" grizzly headed your way.  2nd, IMO, there is not one in a 1000 shooters competent enough with a large bore handgun to be able to consistently place a shot where it must go to keep the animal from getting to you - range shooting is one thing; shooting with your life on the line is something else entirely.  3rd - I'm just naturally not a good shot with a handgun, even though I have shot them for years.  So, I think I'll probably go with the Wild West Guns ghost ring set-up for this rifle.  Perhaps later place a scout scope set-up on it - quick release rings, and carry the rifle without the scope unless I choose to hunt with it.  I'll definitely look into the Aimpoint scopes before I do anything.

 

In my opinion, one's best defense around the big bears is to make noise as your going through the woods.  However, sometimes that isn't enough.  I had a zoology professor at Stanford that had been mauled while hiking in Glacier NP.  He told me he always practiced "woodsman's rules", including making noise.  The bear came "from nowhere" and attacked from behind, he was instantly thrown to the ground, and the bear took part of his scalp, an eye, most of a cheek and even some jaw bone, in addition to muscle from a leg.  Many reconstructive surgeries were necessary and he walked with a decided limp. 

 

One need not be frightened in bear country.  But, it pays to know one's limitations and be prepared.

 

Thanks, MD Mike



Edited by MD Mike
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2007 at 12:53
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MD Mike...............................Glad to read that your eyes are ok!............Practice and alot of it, does make one better with a handgun. I have many years of experience with the 44mag. As with my old 44, for just such bear emergencies, I do rapid fire drills with the 500 at 25 yards. Meaning, from the point that the gun is removed from the holster until all 5 rounds are emptied with the accuracy of a 4" group or less, is less than 5 seconds. I bring a friend with a stop watch. ................When I started these drills last year, my best time was about 8 seconds with the accuracy level not as good. Even though the built in muzzle break reduces the felt recoil by a substantial percentage, it still takes time takes time and practice to adjust to the recoil, then quickly re-aim and fire. Which by the way, is not as bad as many may think with a 500. Certainly not as horrendous as the 454 Casull without a muzzle break! I don`t think I could accomplish a less than 5 second time with a .454. That`s why I chose the 500. More stopping power and less recoil.................Before any juiced up charging grizzly has me in a compromising position of being on the ground knawing on me, he will have some 400 grainers (more than one) placed in him. I certainly wouldn`t want to as a last resort, be on the ground, then place the 500 behind his ear, having faith and assuming that could still be done!........The range certainly does not duplicate an actual attack or charge by a bear in the wild. But what it does do, is instill alot of confidence. With more confidence, comes less panic in the event of an actual emergency.............Your zoology professor I would bet, was unarmed and guessing too that he probably is, anti-gun and/or not a hunter? Maybe at least one or both? Was he hiking alone? If so, a big mistake? Even though he was attacked from behind, there was still a chance he could have used a handgun to protect himself, which may have limited the physical damage to him to a lesser degree! We`ll never know! The "woodsman rules" that he apparently had some degree of faith in, didn`t work did it? Unfortunately, look what he has to show for it. Permanent physical damage!.................Who knows! The odds for this attack could have been one in a thousand or more! But nevertheless, it still happened. Even though I am sorry for his ordeal, the bottom line in this case is that, he went hiking in bear country, probably alone, totally unprepared and chose to have faith in certain "woodsman" rules, even though the odds for an attack were extremely slim! He had too much faith in nature which in turn, reared it`s ugly head. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/21/2007 at 14:21
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I posted this in the wrong spot first but  again if you are serious about bears I would go to the Anchorage daily news site and sign up for their daily on line issue its http://www.adn.com/  They have a lot of information on bears example they estimate there are 200 to 300 black bears in the city now and 50 or 60 griz. many pictures of bears and people in the city and fishing some to close for comfort for me. Check out their wildlife photo galeries some good things there.

 

Duce

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i for one do not think a pistol is near as good at stopping anything as a high powered rifle, now if for some reason your rifle malfunctions or you lose it some how then yeah a pistol is better than nothing, but when you have the correct sized rifle for the job no pistol on earth will equal your rifle in stopping power not the 480 not the 44 not the 454 not the 500, i would feel a lot safer with a .338 or a .375 mag than any hand cannon on the planet. besides lets face it if your close enough to use a pistol on a pissed off bear your probably to close to it to begin with cause face it you aint going to out run a bear thats 30 yds away from you anyway. i do think its a good idea to carry a pistol in bear country, but having people with rifles to back you up is even better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2007 at 00:04
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Big Squeeze, You are the decided exception.  Perhaps the 1 of 1000, or 500, or whatever, that MIGHT be able to stop one of the big bears in their tracks with a big bore revolver while the bear is under a full head of steam. 

 

But, I would still say that the .500 S&W is a weapon of last resort under such circumstances, even under the control of a self-professed expert marksman, such as yourself.  The only advantage to carrying a revolver in bear country vs a suitable rifle, as far as I can see, is that you WILL always have the revolver on your person, not resting against a stump.  That is no small advantage. But, one will have the rifle with them while most vulnerable - while traveling to and from the river or stream.

 

As for the professor, that was over 40 years ago.  I recall he was not armed - but, remember, he was in a national park - I'm not sure if it was even legal to carry a firearm into Glacier at the time.  I can't remember if he was alone or not - it's been too long ago.  As for his political position on guns, for someone you never knew, you sure assume a great deal.   

 

On this point, your reply reveals a considerable amount of inexplicable hostility - what are you going to tell me next, that he had it coming??

 

Oh, one more thing you might wish to know about the guy - In WWII he was an officer leading his men onto Omaha Beach.  You may wish to research what that means. 

 

MD Mike

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MD MIKE..............Well Mike! Based on the views of the majority of todays professors as well as those of the past, making that assumption was certainly not out of the ordinary!.....Many college professors all over the country, past and present, are extremely liberal and simply don`t like guns and would like them removed from all society & law abiding citizens. The liberal establishment in this country, past and present, is trying everything it can to do that. Remember! In my post to you, it was merely an assumption followed by a question mark! However, it`s POSSIBLE that he held those views!.......I was not assuming a great deal, but simply playing the odds or the percentages, that based on his work, he MAY have held those beliefs..........Inexplicable hostility on my part you say??? He had it coming??? Look who`s assuming now!  WRONG on both counts sir!............As a vet myself, YES, I do know what it means to lead men into battle......No need for me to research what that means!.................Good luck with your 45/70! 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2007 at 10:39
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Big Squeeze,

Look, I have no intention of getting involved in an on-going verbal battle here - it would be inappropriate and would serve us no purpose. 

 

Simply stated, given the context of the conversation, I thought, and still think, your interjection of a socio/political stereotype toward the professor, especially in light of his misfortune, to be out of place.  Because I knew this man quite well - he was one of my pre-med advisors at Stanford - your question/speculation served to strike a nerve.  Given today's climate on campus, now that the old '60s radicals who went on to finish their education are now doing much of the hiring of university professors - hiring those that largely share their views - I can fully understand, if in this case not appreciate, your suspicion. 

 

Final point:  I'm sure you are quite good with the .500 S&W and I hope it serves you well.  Good luck.

 

Mike



Edited by MD Mike
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2007 at 17:54
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MD Mike....................We can simply agree to disagree here! You are entitled to your belief and opinion that my assumption was out of place! And that is fine! My comments were not meant to deliberately strike any nerves here! They were based on simply a hypothetical or a possibility! You seem to think that I am not in any way, sensative to the professors life threatening ordeal which occurred long ago!! As a matter of fact, quite the opposite! More than you know! Hypotheticals or possiblities certainly don`t translate into facts. My comments were not delivered as facts and not based on any.................With that said, I wish to clarify why I made those comments, with special emphasis on the word "IF"!!!! Perhaps this will somewhat reduce your anger towards me. I don`t know.....................IF,,,the professor`s mindset years ago, was one of anti-gun (like todays radicals), which in turn, created the mindset for him not to arm himself,,, then,,, therein lies the tragedy in this case! Even though it was a surprise attack from behind, which obviously was unpreventable, could his injuries have been less severe or even far less severe, had he possessed a gun and were able to use it???? It`s possible! We`ll never know for sure, but certainly possible!...............I am not aware of any law now or years ago, which prohibit bringing firearms into Nat`l parks. I seldom visit those parks. Shooting them for recreation within those parks may be a totally different story!! However, if it is against the law, within Nat`l parks, to shoot a bear in a life threatening situation as justifiable self defense, then that is one law that I`ll be more than happy to break and happily accept the consequences!...............Your friend the professor, I`m sure was very close to you. It just pains me to read of these things, especially his injuries of which you previously described. To live the rest of one`s life with those horrible injuries is difficult to imagine...............To be very honest with you, I hope that in this case, my assumption or suspicions were dead wrong! On the other hand, IF he deliberatly chose not to arm himself solely because of any radical or political viewpoints, then all the more tragic!.........................Best wishes to you!  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/22/2007 at 20:49
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I understand the issue and the reason for the comments.  I'm quite content to set it totally aside.  Today's college campuses are chocked full of '60's radicals and their educational offspring.  But, if you think some campuses are over the edge today, you would have gone completely "ape-sh!t" at the sight of a noon-time, trash can burning, communist inspired rally at Cal Berkeley in the '60s.  A couple of times a month a handfull of us from the science/math dept at Stanford would travel from Palo Alto to Berkeley just to be amused by the freak and nut show put on by both the radical faculty, the communist party activists and the "flower children".  Angela Davis, an avowed communist, and members of the Black Panther Party were malcontents that frequented the campus at Cal.  It seemed there was always a speaker behind an outdoor podium somehere at Cal fanning the flames of discontent - and often an American flag.  Ah, the good old days - not!

 

It has been my experience that most (not all) of yesterday's and today's radical left practitioners that roam our college campuses - and I hope I don't offend anyone with this admitted generalization - are from among the academicians plying their trade in such fields as sociology, psych, womens studies, black studies, ethnic studies, among others - departments where those that choose to do so can sit back and talk "sh!t" and raise hell under the cloak of academic freedom.  In math and science depts you see fewer of these folks - I think it's because if one doesn't know what one is talking about, and cannot prove his accuracy, he and everyone else can plainly see it.  1+1=2, everyone agrees, therefore, it is harder to hide behind a facade of psuedo-academic BS as a practitioner of the sciences. Lighting a pipe, sitting back and claiming that 1+1=3 is a much tougher sell in math and the sciences than an outrageous claim of similar magnitude in, say, ethnic studies.  Just my 2 cents, and no doubt not worth that much.

 

Obviously, I am way of topic here.

 

MD Mike  

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