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monarch vs viper

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2011 at 18:03
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Just got a new rifle 7mm mag. Now I need a new scope. Have a Monarch 4X16X50 on order with BDC. But now I find out Vortex Viper HS has a 4X16X50 coming out sometime this summer. I like the spot on tech. that comes along with the Nikon. But I have some Vortex Bios that have great Glass and the new HS Vipers have a 4 inch eye relief in witch was one of the biggest factors why I ordered the Monach. Should I just wait on the Nikon or go cancel and really wait for this summer and get the Vortex viper HS???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2011 at 18:31
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Tough call.

You could get the Nikon and use it.  If you like it, keep it.  If you don't ... sell it, and buy the Viper HS when they are available.  Any money your out you could just write off as "Monarch rent."  You could still get a bit of shooting in while you're waiting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2011 at 20:07
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I agree with Matt
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2011 at 20:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2011 at 16:29
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Thanks at ton guys!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 01:02
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I can't wait to get my hands on one of those Viper HS. The Long Range ones seem to be a great option. Also waiting for my Viper PST to arrive. I changed all my Monarchs for vipers so if I were you I'd wait for the HS to hit the counters.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2011 at 08:33
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I plan on getting my hands on one of the 4-16x44 Viper HS's as soon as possible! But the whole idea or "renting" the monarch is pretty smart if you feel like doing some shooting now.
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I just got my hand on the vortex hs, it just seems like a monarch update or modern replica except for the 30mm tube and the cosmetic differences on turrets, eyepiece, etc... kinda like the intensity line being replicas or updates of simmons 44mag or wtc. The hs though seems to have better optics in the sense that i could get it easier to focus on far off objects at high power, probably because of the 30mm tube or some updated feature from the monarch production line.
Seems logical considering they are made in the same plant and most likely use the same machines or technology in the process,..... i could be wrong though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2011 at 09:47
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Originally posted by FunShot FunShot wrote:

I just got my hand on the vortex hs, it just seems like a monarch update or modern replica except for the 30mm tube and the cosmetic differences on turrets, eyepiece, etc... kinda like the intensity line being replicas or updates of simmons 44mag or wtc. The hs though seems to have better optics in the sense that i could get it easier to focus on far off objects at high power, probably because of the 30mm tube or some updated feature from the monarch production line.
Seems logical considering they are made in the same plant and most likely use the same machines or technology in the process,..... i could be wrong though.


I didn't know the Viper HS hit the streets already.  Could you post a pic?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2011 at 10:55
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um... I did not know the HS is available as well.  I have a backorder pending with SWFA?
 
Also can you clarify exactly what you mean by "they are made in the same plant and most likely use the same machines or technology in the process."
 
Thanks
Steve
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/31/2011 at 08:24
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Noboby  has one yet... Funshot is just talking out of his ass.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2011 at 01:41
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Originally posted by Bitterroot Bulls Bitterroot Bulls wrote:

Originally posted by FunShot FunShot wrote:

I just got my hand on the vortex hs, it just seems like a monarch update or modern replica except for the 30mm tube and the cosmetic differences on turrets, eyepiece, etc... kinda like the intensity line being replicas or updates of simmons 44mag or wtc. The hs though seems to have better optics in the sense that i could get it easier to focus on far off objects at high power, probably because of the 30mm tube or some updated feature from the monarch production line.
Seems logical considering they are made in the same plant and most likely use the same machines or technology in the process,..... i could be wrong though.


I didn't know the Viper HS hit the streets already.  Could you post a pic?
I don't know how to post a pic. Anyway, i got mine in the black market here direct from the factory. I just collect phil made scopes good or bad, somewhat of a hobby of mine. Most are just on display at my hobby room. The only phil made scope i use is the new monarch. 
Big Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2011 at 01:46
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[QUOTE=Stevesdl]um... I did not know the HS is available as well.  I have a backorder pending with SWFA?
 
Also can you clarify exactly what you mean by "they are made in the same plant and most likely use the same machines or technology in the process."
 
Thanks
Steve
[/QUOTE
I have no idea if they use the same machines or technology, i just assume they do because they are made in the same plant and they  look externally similar in some ways. The plant here does not actually sell the scopes, they just make them here. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2011 at 01:59
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Originally posted by Midwest_Hunter Midwest_Hunter wrote:

Noboby  has one yet... Funshot is just talking out of his ass.
I feel offended but i do understand. Anyway, i am from the philippines, i get my scopes from people who have contacts from the factory. I don't know if they are already in the market or not there in the U.S. I think i may have also gotten my timberline before they hit the market. 
Now i'm even doubting myself if the vortex i got is the HS since i just put it on the shelf with other phil made scopes i have when i got it after scrutinizing and playing with it a bit, did not even mount it on a gun, anyway it's a SF model Vortex which i was told and assume is the new HS model, have to give it a second look when i go home. Should i be wrong, would like to apologize in advance.Bandito
Anyway check out this thread in rimfirecentral forum, it has a picture posted also by a fellow Filipino of the new vortex coming out of the plant, similar to the one i got.http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=372985


Edited by FunShot - February/02/2011 at 02:24
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2011 at 07:37
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Hmmm.  wonder if vortex knows there are scopes being smuggled out the plant they hire to build their scopes?  Bet they will now
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2011 at 09:45
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I guess my only thought on this matter is this: 
 
When I ordered my scope, I called SWFA and asked when they thought the scopes would be in for delivery, it was first kindly mentioned that the original thought was this scope would not be available till "late 2011". 
 
That shocked me.  I pointed out that the SWFA site mentions "Summer Delivery", to which the professional and kind reply was, "our site does say that". I sensed some confusion in the answer. Understand though that I am not slamming SWFA, just stating what I experienced.
 
I was somewhat disappointed and so I called Vortex. I received a very professional and polite person and I explained my now confusion and concern. To me, "late 2011" won't cut it. that is hunting season. Vortex rep mentioned that they honestly really do not have "a specific date" as to when these scopes will get shipped. It was also mentioned that the first shipment was only for 400 HS scopes!!  So one will also wonder if "their order" falls into that first 400???
 
Everyday I am wondering if I should wait or if I should go ahead and get one of the 6.5-20x44mm in BDC reticle while they are still available.  The only 2 major issues that keep me from getting this latter scope now is the eye clearance and the lowest power of only 6.5. If a quick 25-50 yard shot presents itself, I might not be able to focus on my target!!
 
I have never had to wait a half of a year or more for something that is advertised for sale and somehow that has a little bit of a "not right" sound, at least to me.
 
Now we see someone suggest, brag, mention, what ever you want to call it, that they have one from the black market.  How many others have one from the black market. Where is the strict inventory control.
 
Just my thoughts, I am having some doubts about all this now. sigh!
 
Stevesdl
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2011 at 09:56
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The plain and simple truth is that nobody knows when they will arrive for sure..... If you want a definate, go with something already out and shipping.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2011 at 22:53
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Originally posted by Stevesdl Stevesdl wrote:

I guess my only thought on this matter is this: 
 
When I ordered my scope, I called SWFA and asked when they thought the scopes would be in for delivery, it was first kindly mentioned that the original thought was this scope would not be available till "late 2011". 
 
That shocked me.  I pointed out that the SWFA site mentions "Summer Delivery", to which the professional and kind reply was, "our site does say that". I sensed some confusion in the answer. Understand though that I am not slamming SWFA, just stating what I experienced.
 
I was somewhat disappointed and so I called Vortex. I received a very professional and polite person and I explained my now confusion and concern. To me, "late 2011" won't cut it. that is hunting season. Vortex rep mentioned that they honestly really do not have "a specific date" as to when these scopes will get shipped. It was also mentioned that the first shipment was only for 400 HS scopes!!  So one will also wonder if "their order" falls into that first 400???
 
Everyday I am wondering if I should wait or if I should go ahead and get one of the 6.5-20x44mm in BDC reticle while they are still available.  The only 2 major issues that keep me from getting this latter scope now is the eye clearance and the lowest power of only 6.5. If a quick 25-50 yard shot presents itself, I might not be able to focus on my target!!
 
I have never had to wait a half of a year or more for something that is advertised for sale and somehow that has a little bit of a "not right" sound, at least to me.
 
Now we see someone suggest, brag, mention, what ever you want to call it, that they have one from the black market.  How many others have one from the black market. Where is the strict inventory control.
 
Just my thoughts, I am having some doubts about all this now. sigh!
 
Stevesdl

Sir, i just would like to say that i am not bragging. I was just giving my quick comment on the scope as honest as i can so as to help potential buyers decide to get one or to pass one up. Why would i brag about a vortex scope, it's just a middle of the line scope and is made in the philippines. You could check my comments on this forum or on rimfire central on various phil made scopes, i never even gave solid praises for them. Having getting my scopes on the black market, i pay a whole lot for what they are worth as with fellow Filipino shooters i know. I know people here who pay 1000 dollars for scopes worth 500 because it's the only option we have aside from buying entry level chinese scopes also for double or triple their true value.
If i had a choice, i would buy a leupold, zeiss, or swarovski instead considering the money i put out to get them.
Again, sorry for whatever disappointment or confusion i may have caused, next time i'll check if the scope is out on the market before i give my comments.Smile
As for how many have them on the black market, i really don't know but i would say just a few. Usually scopes with scratches or some minor defect are the ones easily slipped out now. But as i've mentioned either here or in another forum, beware of philippine made scopes as prior to 2009, there were many scopes smuggled out of the factory. If your not sure of your dealer, or if the deal is too good, like a cheap new scope without a box, etc... that may be a smuggled out scope.


Edited by FunShot - February/02/2011 at 23:03
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/02/2011 at 23:19
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Originally posted by SVT_Tactical SVT_Tactical wrote:

Hmmm.  wonder if vortex knows there are scopes being smuggled out the plant they hire to build their scopes?  Bet they will now

My guess is that vortex already knows as does nikon, bushnell, burris, etc... That's why new protocols were implemented and as from what i know, certain people from  the syndicate that was smuggling the scopes out where already incarcerated.
With products like this, i guess it's common every now and then that someone will smuggle something out. Nothing new here or anywhere else, most likely someone, somewhere got a product before it hit the market whether it be optics or electronics. Wink


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2011 at 05:53
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Originally posted by Midwest_Hunter Midwest_Hunter wrote:

I plan on getting my hands on one of the 4-16x44 Viper HS's as soon as possible! But the whole idea or "renting" the monarch is pretty smart if you feel like doing some shooting now.
 
If you buy (rent) the Monarch from SWFA, they will give you a very fair trade-in price toward the purchase of the Viper.  It would be the cheapest rent you'll ever pay! Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2011 at 06:05
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I'd be concerned that any smuggled scope was not top quality or just a plain knock-off.  The quality rejects would be much less likely to be closely watched and guarded in the factory and therefor the easiest to smuggle out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2011 at 07:13
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My thoughts on this smuggling tangent:
Smuggled, black market: it is all illegal.
Because this exists, one way or another, somehow the honest working guy and the honest company who is manufacturing and selling the product, ends up paying for the costs, whether it be accounting for the lost materials, makeup on labor, costs for protection devices and services against such illegal activity.
This fine company (SWFA) and the sponsers that offer this incredible site free of charge to all of us also gets affected by such illegal activity.
 
 
Regarding the following comments after I did some homework: 
1. "I just got my hand on the vortex hs, it just seems like a monarch update or modern replica"
 
There is a possibility that behind the scenes, Nikon manufactures this line of scope with specifications that make it the Vortex line. Nothing new. I worked for a company that made the computer paper for most all those big name companies you see when you go to your Office Depots and Office Max's. (..and some think that big name company makes it's own paper)
 
2. "The hs though seems to have better optics in the sense that i could get it easier to focus on far off objects at high power, probably because of the 30mm tube or some updated feature from the monarch production line."
 
Its got nothing to do with the tube. One thing that does make a difference is called ED glass. This is one of the great features of a Vortex scope that make its scopes, including the less expensive scopes like the Viper HS look as good if not better than some of the higher end scopes that don't use it.  If you call 2006 "some updated feature", then whatever.
 
 
 
3. "Seems logical considering they are made in the same plant and most likely use the same machines or technology in the process,..... i could be wrong though."
 
Inside a manufacturing plant, everyone knows what and who. I was in that type of business for a long time. A product isn't made in a secret room by secret technicians that have no clue what they are making and then the secret product is placed in a secret plastic bag and then shipped to a secret location where it is then placed in a box that has the company name on it. If SOMEONE is getting a smuggled product, they know what they are getting. If someone is vague on what the product is, one is either covering up one's activity or one really is not in possession of what they have. Take your choice.
 
I would thik that someone who collects scopes and has a scope room, that someone wouldn't be so vague in denotations and definitions.   ,..... i could be wrong though.
 
Okay I digressed. Apologies
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Without a pic, I still think you're full of it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/03/2011 at 19:35
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Stevesdl,
 Goingto buy Monach 4-16X50 from SWFA and If I'm not 100% happy with it I'll trade it in on a Viper HS. The guys at competitor feel the Monarch is a better scope than the Vortex. Don't really know but I do like the spot on tech. on their web site. I know Vortex has something like it but it seems to be a lot more complacated than Nikons. The 6.6-22 your thinking about getting is a nice scope if your trying to get out to about 1000 yards but at 22 power you would almost have to have a vice in the field at least I would need one. 4-16 will take you nicely out to 600 to 700 yards. But you get to keep the 4 power you said you might need. I'm no expert just a Hunter. I do agree that late 2011 sounds too close to hunting season for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/04/2011 at 18:10
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Originally posted by Stevesdl Stevesdl wrote:

My thoughts on this smuggling tangent:
Smuggled, black market: it is all illegal.
Because this exists, one way or another, somehow the honest working guy and the honest company who is manufacturing and selling the product, ends up paying for the costs, whether it be accounting for the lost materials, makeup on labor, costs for protection devices and services against such illegal activity.
This fine company (SWFA) and the sponsers that offer this incredible site free of charge to all of us also gets affected by such illegal activity.
 
 
Regarding the following comments after I did some homework: 
1. "I just got my hand on the vortex hs, it just seems like a monarch update or modern replica"
 
There is a possibility that behind the scenes, Nikon manufactures this line of scope with specifications that make it the Vortex line. Nothing new. I worked for a company that made the computer paper for most all those big name companies you see when you go to your Office Depots and Office Max's. (..and some think that big name company makes it's own paper)
 
2. "The hs though seems to have better optics in the sense that i could get it easier to focus on far off objects at high power, probably because of the 30mm tube or some updated feature from the monarch production line."
 
Its got nothing to do with the tube. One thing that does make a difference is called ED glass. This is one of the great features of a Vortex scope that make its scopes, including the less expensive scopes like the Viper HS look as good if not better than some of the higher end scopes that don't use it.  If you call 2006 "some updated feature", then whatever.
 
 
 
3. "Seems logical considering they are made in the same plant and most likely use the same machines or technology in the process,..... i could be wrong though."
 
Inside a manufacturing plant, everyone knows what and who. I was in that type of business for a long time. A product isn't made in a secret room by secret technicians that have no clue what they are making and then the secret product is placed in a secret plastic bag and then shipped to a secret location where it is then placed in a box that has the company name on it. If SOMEONE is getting a smuggled product, they know what they are getting. If someone is vague on what the product is, one is either covering up one's activity or one really is not in possession of what they have. Take your choice.
 
I would thik that someone who collects scopes and has a scope room, that someone wouldn't be so vague in denotations and definitions.   ,..... i could be wrong though.
 
Okay I digressed. Apologies
Sir i'll be the first to admit that i'm ignorant when it comes to optics, that's why i go to this site. I'm truly sorry if i caused confusion. As for getting scope in the black market, from where i come from scopes are illegal. Our former dictator had scopes outlawed in fear of assassination attempts on his life. There is a presidential decree that states that importation and selling of scopes is illegal, when the government changed hands the law regarding the scopes was never changed or revised despite petition from local shooters because it takes time and a lot of money, and being a third world country, our government can't afford it.
However, owning scopes here is very much tolerated as there seems to be a loophole in that you just can't buy or import, but not specifically own. Stores here also sell scopes and are apparently able to somehow import them as accessories but they sell it for a price knowing that no civilian can technically import or buy a scope. A regular vx1 leupold here can cause as much as 1000 dollars and a vx3 would go for about 3000 dollars, a $50 BSA here costs 300 to 400 dollars and FAKE tasco scopes here costs 100. 
As for the scopes, i guess no one loses much money on them because as i've mentioned, they are rejects or passed as rejects. Vortex, Nikon, Burris, etc... doesn't pay for undelivered scopes. So you could argue that it's  such a waste to just destroy the scopes, at least i get them just for my own collection and i don't sell them.
I guess what i'm trying to say is that, yes what i did is considered illegal and there is no excuse for it but i just hope you guys understand why i did it. I feel kinda bad from your first statement, i am deeply grateful for sites like this.
I don't have a scope room, just a hobby room for my hunting. The only scopes i own that are not phil made are an elite 4200, an old tasco tr scope, and a couple of leapers for my airgun and they are all mounted on guns and all were paid for and legit including a old simmons 44mag which i also bought abroad and later just found out it was phil made.  
AGAIN CAN'T APOLOGIZE ENOUGH, I REALLY FEEL BAD ALREADY. The last thing i want is to make a bad reputation for myself in front of you guys, i hope somehow i can redeem myself. I probably would just read posts here or ask if i need info, and further refrain from giving comments.Mouth Taped Shut


Edited by FunShot - February/04/2011 at 19:09
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