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MOA vs MIL Chart

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2012 at 13:46
Chris Farris View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2012 at 13:51
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Nice dummy reference for new shooters. Good post Chris. Thunbs Up
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2012 at 13:53
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I was reluctant to post it because we are really trying very hard to educate shooters to stop thinking in linear measurements and to think in angular measurements.
 
Until your brain accepts the notion it has a relentless need to know how many inches that is at 300 yards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2012 at 19:56
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great chart ... im printing that and hanging it on the wall at the shop LOL
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trying to explain that mils isn't metric, but that it works in metric simply because the metric system is all in increments of 10 ... to a old school hunter that thinks in MOA to inches .... where really he is thinking in IPHY ...
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Yah ... I have stopped even opening that can of worms ...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/29/2012 at 22:21
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Yep, mil math is easier since it's decimal (like U.S. currency), although I had to get used to thinking of target sizes as decimal too, e.g. 18" = .5 yards.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/02/2012 at 19:27
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Looks to me like the MOA side is decimal also, just smaller units.

I think the real underlying point is, if your going to get a good scope get either MIL-MIL or MOA-MOA, instead of MIL reticle and MOA turret increments.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2012 at 16:39
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I don't think its a dummy reference chart, but I think there are several people out there that are hung up on thinking that MIL and MOA are linear measurements.
 
The key is reading the reticle like a you would read a tape measure or ruler.
 
Let's say you take a shot at 100 yards, and you didn't move your position and the reticle is in the exact same position where you were orginally aiming.
 
And after looking at the reticle and determining how many mils off you are, say the first hash mark on the mil-quad reticle. You make your elevation adjustment for .50 mils or 5 clicks.
 
It doesn't matter how far or how close your shooting, because the adjustments are angular measurments.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2012 at 16:43
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Originally posted by Skylar McMahon Skylar McMahon wrote:

I don't think its a dummy reference chart, but I think there are several people out there that are hung up on thinking that MIL and MOA are linear measurements.
 
The key is reading the reticle like a you would read a tape measure or ruler. 
 
 
Uh, all of my tape measures, measure in linear measurments so I don't understand what you mean.
 
Can you help me understand?  If I miss a shot and I measure it with my tape measure I will know how much I missed in inches but how do I turn that into mils?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2012 at 17:05
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Originally posted by Skunk Skunk wrote:

Uh, all of my tape measures, measure in linear measurments so I don't understand what you mean.
 
Can you help me understand?  If I miss a shot and I measure it with my tape measure I will know how much I missed in inches but how do I turn that into mils?
 
MOA and MIL are both angular measurements.
 
It is a correlation that when MOA is converted into a linear measurment, that it subtends 1.047 " at 100 yards. So close to 1" that most people consider it to be 1" at 100 yards.
With a scope that has 1/4 MOA adjustments corresponds to each click moving the reticle 1/4" at 100 yards.
 
It is also interdependent that .10 of MIL is a centimeter at 100 meters, so most people interpret is with the metric system for mil based riflescopes.
 
MOA & MIL are not standard and metric measurements.
They are simply angular measurments, however several people thing that MIL is metric, but it is not.
 
Like Chris said, you have to make your brain stop applying linear measurments to your angular adjustment.
 
It is simpler to apply this method using a mil retilce with complimenting mil/mil turrets.
 
Skunk, you can try this by using your reticle to adjust for how much you missed your target.
 
I'll take into consideration that you are shooting a target at 500 yards and you miss low.
If you can see how much you missed by, where your shot actually went.
You can put the reticle in the same position and measure the difference, make the adjustment in elevation that you missed and you have corrected your DOPE. (Drop On Previous Engagement.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2012 at 17:08
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But if you miss the first one, they are already returning fire.  Knowing where the bullet hit ain't going to do you much good then.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/13/2012 at 23:39
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Originally posted by Skunk Skunk wrote:

But if you miss the first one, they are already returning fire.  Knowing where the bullet hit ain't going to do you much good then.  
 
 
If you miss your target, you were not properly prepared to engage your target.  And you will suffer the conseqences for poor planning.  If you get shot in the front, you will die honorably and your family will think your a hero. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2012 at 08:55
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I´m old and flimsy but isn´t 1 mil 3,45" at 100 yards ? (3,6" at 100 meter
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2012 at 09:04
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Originally posted by Gerry Atric Gerry Atric wrote:

I´m old and flimsy but isn´t 1 mil 3,45" at 100 yards ? (3,6" at 100 meter

1mil = 3.6" at 100yds (as shown by Chris on the first post) or 1 mil = 3.4 MOA (at any distance)

Also, I think some people are still missing Skylar's point, but this topic has been beat to death many times before.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/14/2012 at 20:39
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From Wikipedia:  Stadiametric rangefinding
 
<snip>
 
Principle

The stadia method is based upon the principle that in similar triangles homologous sides are proportional. This means that, for a right triangle with a given angle, the ratio of adjacent side length to opposite side length (see tangent) is constant. By using a reticle with marks of a known angular spacing, the principle of similar triangles can be used to find either the distance to objects of known size or the size of objects at a known distance. In either case, the known parameter is used, in conjunction with the angular measurement, to derive the length of the other side.

Since a radian is defined as the angle formed when the length of a circular arc equals the radius of the circle, a milliradian (sometimes called a mil), is the angle formed when the length of a circular arc equals 1/1000 of the radius of the circle. An object 5 meters high, for example, will cover 1 mrad at 5000 meters, or 5 mrad at 1000 meters, or 25 mrad at 200 meters. Since the radian expresses a ratio, it is independent of the units used; an object 6 feet high covering 1 mrad will be 6000 feet distant.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2012 at 02:04
Gerry Atric View Drop Down
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Originally posted by lumberjack149 lumberjack149 wrote:

Originally posted by Gerry Atric Gerry Atric wrote:

I´m old and flimsy but isn´t 1 mil 3,45" at 100 yards ? (3,6" at 100 meter

1mil = 3.6" at 100yds (as shown by Chris on the first post) or 1 mil = 3.4 MOA (at any distance)

Also, I think some people are still missing Skylar's point, but this topic has been beat to death many times before.
 
So I´ve just proven my thesis above (old and flimsy). I´ll stick to mil.....
 
Gerry
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2012 at 03:29
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I am trying to get my mind around mil mil because I learned moa.  Where is a place where I can get ballistic calculations for mil mil?

Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/29/2012 at 06:04
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here is another good read on the mil system  http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2607 
This guy has put together some good articles on mil, moa, and FFP/SFP.
As far as ballistic calculators there are quite a few depending on whether you have a smart phone or computer. If youre using a G1 BC then just about every ammo place has one, if youre using the G7 it will narrow youre options down. 
What are you currently using for MOA? A good free one on the internet is JBM. As far as smart phones you have Shooter (my favorite), ballistics FTE, strelok (free), and a few others i cant think of off the top my head. You can always just thro your current data in excel and add an extra column in for mils (take your current moa and divide by 3.4).
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2013 at 11:04
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So if I am reading this right, (which I may not be as I am trying to learn Mil and MOA) theoretically, you should be able to fine tune a MOA/MOA scope closer to the X on a target at longer ranges, due to each click having a smaller value? (Based on .25 for MOA/MOA and .1 for Mil/Mil)  

For example at 500yd there is about .5" difference per click.  I know I am probably just splitting hairs at this point, but I am new to these type of reticles and trying to figure out which one would be best for me.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2013 at 11:19
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At 500yds a .25 MOA would equal 1.25".
Simple way to think about it: 500yds=5, so 5X.25=1.25", but it's not exact.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2013 at 11:42
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I should have put based on .25 MOA turrets and .1 Mil turrets, that's how I came up with the .5" difference per click between the two at 500yds.  

For example if you were off the X by 1.25" at 500yds one click of the .25 MOA turret would be off .06" where as one click of the .1 mil turret would be off by .55"

And now that I put it on paper it really is splitting hairs.

I'm new to these reticles and trying to figure out which system will be easier to learn and use for shooting prairie dogs, yotes, hogs, gongs, and shiloutes out to about 600yds with my ar in 223.  

I am also in the process of building a 6.5 Creedmore that I want to shoot out to a 1000 plus, so just trying to figure out what reticle will serve me best.  I don't plan on doing any competitive shooting, just hunting and plinking.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2013 at 11:45
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Shoalwater,  you are correct, a 0.25MOA adjustment is a finer change than is a 0.1mil adjustment.
That said, your dope change is a series of clicks, so you won't be as far off as your argument would indicate.  I can count to 1000 by 1s and by 20s, one is faster, both get to 1000.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2013 at 12:02
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I understand your question now.
I'm kind of old school and tend to think in MOA or estimated 1 MOA=1 inch at 100yds. It's kind of hard for me to use a Mil reticle without a Mil dot master or the formula for ranging. However I have found that making sighting corrections with a Mil reticle is rather easy at any range. If your off by 2 1/2 Mils, then move the reticle 2.5 Mils or 25 clicks toward the target. Now if I had to rang a target with a MOA reticle, I might hurt my head boneBucky
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2013 at 12:15
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So for what I intend to do with my rifles which reticle would y'all recommend.  I have a good range finder, but lets be honest its hard to range small object at long distances with them.  Is ranging with a mildot easier that MOA?  I really appreciate the help.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2013 at 13:25
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A Mil dot Master (available from SWFA) has the formula and is easy to use to range targets with a Mil dot scope. all you need to know is the size of your target.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/23/2013 at 13:26
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The difference between MOA and Mil is not that much. Looking at the chart CF gave us a 1/4MOA is 0.26inches and the 0.1Mil is 0.36inches at 100yds. I do not know of anyone who can shoot well enough to make use of 0.1 inch difference. And the difference is not additive since as RC pointed out you will not have to use as many clicks with a 0.1 mil as you would with a 1/4MOA.

All of my scopes are MOA with MOA adjustments. But knowing what I know now I would go with a MIL/MIL scope I think it is easier for most people to use. Just make sure you reticle and adjustments are using the same scale not different such as a MIL reticle and MOA adjustments. But I will say that having a reticle and adjustments that are not the same are usable, but the math involved is more complex. So why make things more difficult than they need to be?

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