New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Moa or mrad reticle?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Moa or mrad reticle?

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2014 at 20:35
Shooter31 View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: September/26/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 57
Ok here's my question. I'm not familiar with either moa or mrad recticles. Which would be better/easier to learn and any pros cons that I might need to know.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/12/2014 at 21:29
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13882
This has been covered a few times you can use the search function and read numerous comment.
short version - If it is a tactical gun and distances exceed 300 yds a mil mil scope can be really nice because you use the reticle to measure from where the bullet strikes to where you want it to strike in Mils and dial correction in Mils.   You can get  a few scopes with MOA based reticles then do the same thing in MOA with those.  When the reticle is in Mil and the adjustments are MOA then we tend to think in terms of inches like I want to move 6 inches left at 300 yds so one MOA at 300 is 3 inches that means I want to dial correction 2 MOA (8 clicks on  a 1/4 MOA scope). If the scope is a hunting scope and all you are trying to do is kill deer then something like a Zeiss Rapid Z800 is a good choice if you work with it you will know what you are going to get at what power.  With a second focal plane scope the reticle always looks the same size when you look through the scope but the marks represent different values at every different power.  with FFP  First Focal Plane scopes the reticle always corresponds to  the measurement one mil is always one mil at 3x or 9x or 20x and at low powers the reticle will look quite fine and at high powers very large.
Correct selection of a scope depends on what you intend to do with it.  What it is going on how it will be used what type special need like low light or brush or long distance etc.   be specific and the guys will try to give you sound advice.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2014 at 03:17
ol0ko View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: June/25/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 38
Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

With a second focal plane scope the reticle always looks the same size when you look through the scope but the marks represent different values at every different power.  with FFP  First Focal Plane scopes the reticle always corresponds to  the measurement one mil is always one mil at 3x or 9x or 20x and at low powers the reticle will look quite fine and at high powers very large.


It took me some time to figure this one out. I have a second plane scope with mil dots and I realized how important it is to know at what power I set the scope because I chose at various distances and some times in fact often I have difficult to hit the target because I change the power and the mil dot settings are no longer true. So then I started thinking about what kind of a scope I should get to replace the second focal plane scope with mil dots. I started thinking what if I was to get a second plane scope but with some type of a zero dot with a circle around it type reticle. I figured if the reticle always looks the same size then I could use that as an aide of some sort because of the way that I shoot where it is almost on an impulz. I am into varmin hunting and these birds and rats when I spot them they do not always hang around and I am thinking I do not have the time to start calculating the mil dots. Just measure up the animal, determine the distance and shoot. I do not know if that makes much sense but that is more or less my view of what would best suite me at this moment.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2014 at 14:03
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13882
I suggest you select one of SWFA's   SS scopes they are FFP like the 3-9x42 SuperSniper with mil quad reticle. Or the 3-15x42 or 5-20x50
SWFA SS HD 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS HD 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQ
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,299.95

SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SS39X42MQ
  • Matte
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 0.1 MRAD
$599.95
SWFA SS 3-15x42 Tactical Rifle Scope SWFA SS 3-15x42 Tactical Rifle Scope
Stock # - SS315X42MQ
  • Matte Finish
  • First Focal Plane
  • Patented Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm Tube
  • Side Focus (6m-infinity)
  • OK for .50cal
  • .10 Mrad Turrets
$699.95


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - August/13/2014 at 20:36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2014 at 14:47
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 7709
Be aware of 2 things:

1.  Ranging with a mil or MOA reticle is a VERY PERISHABLE SKILL: if you don't practice, often, you will not be good at it.
2.  Most scope manufacturers only calibrate a few points on the scale, not the entire magnification scale.  If you scope is correct at 10X, do not assume you can double it at 5X and be on.  Theoretically it works, but the scope might be calibrated at 10X and not at 5X.


I don't range anything on an SFP scope, too many potential problems.  When using FFP, it gets much MUCH simpler.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2014 at 20:39
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13882
With a fixed power it is also always the same .  These come  6x  10x  12x  16x  20x and a 10x HD

SWFA SS 12x42 Tactical Riflescope SWFA SS 12x42 Tactical Riflescope
Stock # - SS12X42MQ
  • Matte Finish
  • Patented Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm Tube
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • .10 Mrad
$299.95

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2014 at 20:40
ol0ko View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: June/25/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 38
The sort of reticle that I had in mind I see for instance in the Trijicon ACOG TA33-H. Of course this is a zero dot but I have noticed also scopes with similar reticles.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2014 at 20:41
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13882
http://www.opticstalk.com/uploads/298/12XReticle.jpg
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2014 at 20:49
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13882
Originally posted by ol0ko ol0ko wrote:

The sort of reticle that I had in mind I see for instance in the Trijicon ACOG TA33-H. Of course this is a zero dot but I have noticed also scopes with similar reticles.

Trijicon ACOG reticles  are often "balistic drop compensated"  and set to a specific cartridge out of a specific lenght barrel which works well if you are the US Military and all your ammo is consistently the same and your rifles have the same length barrel.

Change that to the hunting world and you have reticles like Zeiss Z800  but every mark corresponds to something different when you change the power of the scope it is second focal plane and you have to use their calculator to figure out where your caliber and particular cartridge work best for me it is at about 10x  on a 4.5-14 scope with a 300 WSM shooting 190 gr bullets 2900 fps.
Zeiss 3-15x50 Conquest HD5 Rifle Scope Zeiss 3-15x50 Conquest HD5 Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5226319982
  • Matte
  • Rapid-Z 800
  • 1"
  • Standard Hunting Turret
  • Side Focus
  • 2nd Focal Plane
$879.96

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2014 at 21:10
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13882
Lets say we were hunting deer with a 6x SS which can be hand held and is the brightest of the fixed power SS scopes in low light.   And since we wanted the mil dots we made the sacrifice and picked the scope with mil dots and 1/4 moa clicks (niot the one with the Mil Quad reticle which is finer in appearance that has 1/10 moa clicks)
SWFA SS 6x42 Tactical Riflescope SWFA SS 6x42 Tactical Riflescope
Stock # - SS6X42
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 1/4 MOA
$299.95
To make life less complicated we went to Kenton Industries and bought their aftermarket engraved knob by telling them what rifle caliber barrel length specific cartridge and elevation above sea level we needed the knob to be custom engraved to represent.
http://kentonindustries.com/custom-turrets/swfa  Note the 1 represents 100 yds  1.5 is 150 yds etc
SS MOA/MRAD
       SPEED DIAL          
If we figure that the deer is 18 inches brisket to backbone then we know that at 500 yds that should  cover  1 mil  and at 333 yds it should cover 1.5 mil and at  250 it should cover 2 mils  and at 200 yds it should cover 2.5 mil.  You can figure out the math and make a chart.   Now estimating wind effect on the bullet becomes much more challenging at longer distances. 
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/13/2014 at 21:22
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13882
Now lets say we are hunting prairie dogs and selected a fixed 16x Mil Quad  MIL MIL scope
SWFA SS 16x42 Tactical Riflescope SWFA SS 16x42 Tactical Riflescope
Stock # - SS16X42MQ
  • Matte Finish
  • Patented Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm Tube
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • .10 Mrad
$299.95
We know that we are going to shoot this off of a solid rest and shoot prairie dogs at about 300 yds give or take a few hundred.  We know they are about 9 inches tall so we use our chart taking note that 3/4 mil represents 9 inches at 333 yds and one mil represents 9 inches at 250 yds but this is fast action and we really are not going to bother dialing in correction ( but we might if its way out) we just plan to hold over or under to compensate since we went to the range and set the zero at 300 yds on a 204 Ruger varmit rifle. Since that caliber has very little kick we can see if we shot over or under by spotting our own bullet impact.  In that case having the Mil Quad Reticle is priceless because you can use it to hold over or you can dial in using the same MIL increments.


Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - August/13/2014 at 21:28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2014 at 13:28
ol0ko View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: June/25/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 38

It is called a horse shoe reticle and this is what I believe would do well for me when hunting the way that I do which is chose and personal. So please do not show me any more mil dot reticles and swfa scopes because I am not interested.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2014 at 13:40
supertool73 View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar
Superstool

Joined: January/03/2008
Location: Utah
Status: Online
Points: 9533
That horseshoe reticle is not MOA or Mildot.  It is specifially calibrated holdover points for a specfic, load/velocity for an AR-15.   I have one of those and it is a good scope, but not if you want to range or dial in adjustments. 


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2014 at 14:34
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13882
Originally posted by Shooter31 Shooter31 wrote:

Ok here's my question. I'm not familiar with either moa or mrad recticles. Which would be better/easier to learn and any pros cons that I might need to know.
               I dont think this said anything about hunting Ford trucks in the suburbs.   Trijicon may make a nice product for some specific tactical uses but there is a lot more to learn about tactical optics than what can be done with an ACOG.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2014 at 14:40
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 18346
I like that concept... hunting Ford trucks...  however, you would have to have a really big wall to mount more than one or two...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/14/2014 at 14:47
Rancid Coolaid View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Master
Optics Jedi Master
Avatar

Joined: January/19/2005
Location: United States
Status: Online
Points: 7709

Not sure why you asked for things you need to know if you aren't interested in what we have to say.

ACOG is a fine scope, no question, lots of great features, but you don't need to know anything about mils or angles, which is part of why it has military contracts for dumb grunts.


That comes from a dumb grunt, by the way.


Posted from phone, edited on computer - due to terrible grammar and spelling.



Edited by Rancid Coolaid - August/15/2014 at 10:08
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2014 at 01:42
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 18346
Everybody loves it because it is as close to "soldier proof" as has ever been built. I asked one of the soldiers I worked with how he liked his... he looked me right in the eyes and said " from my cold, dead hands...".  I said " dang man, you can keep it, I just wanted to know how you liked it".  He said "now you know"...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/15/2014 at 09:15
ol0ko View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: June/25/2014
Status: Offline
Points: 38
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

I like that concept... hunting Ford trucks...  however, you would have to have a really big wall to mount more than one or two...


No, thanks I do not need trophies. On the other hand I would not mind hunting down one of those Ford trucks though and keeping at least one in the garage. ;)
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Moa or mrad reticle?"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
List of FFP Mil-Dot Scopes MOA/MRAD Sub $1K Jettubby Rifle Scopes 4
FFP - Mil/Mil -MOA/MRAD Flanny Tactical Scopes 15
SWFA 3x15x42 ffp Moa quad reticle . Greenhorn#1 Rifle Scopes 7
SS MOA/Quad reticle? ba_50 Tactical Scopes 4
Sightron SIII 6x24x50 LR MOA-2 - reticle question Fat Dave Rifle Scopes 4
MOA reticle for a project gun. KBobAries Rimfire / Airgun 2
SWFA 16X question MOA reticle Hammer47 Tactical Scopes 0
SWFA MRAD 10x42 reticle canted??? Shureshot56 Rifle Scopes 10
MOA hash reticles Idaho Scot Rifle Scopes 13
MOA Based Reticle Range Table Urimaginaryfrnd Tactical Scopes 27


This page was generated in 0.391 seconds.