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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2006 at 20:47
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Hi, I was wondering if anybody has seen these in person yet?  They look very nice and I like the weight factor.  I noticed that the Minox site side that they use German glass but does anyone know where the binoculars are assembled???

 

Thanks

 

AC

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2006 at 22:05
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Japan
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/19/2006 at 22:13
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Thanks Roy................that painfully helped my decision

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/26/2006 at 10:18
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Gentlemen,

 

HGs are engineered in Germany (please see MINOX news) and are assembled in Japan.  But, as a majority of todays high end optics in general. 

 

MINOX manufacturers its products in Japan for several very good reasons: latest equipment, cost effective production with 100% guaranteed quality, constant even at high volumes.  For as long as product meets manufacturers specifications and quality standards this is completely acceptable. 

 

HGs are backed by MINOX limited life time warranty.  We are very sure you will not be disappointed or caught by any surprise after years of owing and using our product.

 

I hope the above helps.  Thank you for your interest in MINOX HG products.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/29/2006 at 21:00
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Personally, if the HG's were up to par with say bins like the Kahles, Swaro SLC's and Zeiss Classic's I wouldn't really care if they were assembled in Japan. From what I have heard from other folks, their quality is top notch. I think anyone who has owned Pentax Sp's, Nikon LXL's or  Bushnell Elite's knows that the German's don't have a patent on high quality bin's.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/29/2006 at 23:05
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Dear Roy,

I am sorry but I am not quite sure if I understand your message.  Is it a joke, or is it a serious statement?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/29/2006 at 23:11
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Minox, what's not to understand.  It sounds as if Roy is saying if your binos are good then they are good regardless of the country they are made in.

 

ranburr

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/29/2006 at 23:15
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Oh, I see now...  Could not figure out right away what did you mean:)  Yes, really, Germans do not have patent on building high quality optics anymore - that is true.  But still, they always seem to have couple of new tricks up in the sleeve - old school, you know:)))

Thanks for the support, Roy!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/29/2006 at 23:49
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That's what I meant, Gene. German bin's are great, but they are not the only game in town. I'm reasonably sure that with Minox's reputation for quality they would not settle for anything but the best for final assembly.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/30/2006 at 08:16
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Thanks again, Roy!

HG's just received very good overview in July/August "Sporting Classics" magazine.  They were one of the writer's picks.

Have a great weekend and happy hunting!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2006 at 04:16
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Hello,

     comparing specs of different binocs (Zeiss Victory FL, Leica Ultravid, Minox HG, Swarovski EL, Nikon HG DCF or LX L inthe US) I've noticed the Minox HG have a (much) narrower field of view. I wonder what the reason for this could be. Also, I'd like to hear opinions on how important FoV is to you.

 

Ciao,

     Lino

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2006 at 10:57
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Originally posted by ggirino ggirino wrote:

Hello,

     comparing specs of different binocs (Zeiss Victory FL, Leica Ultravid, Minox HG, Swarovski EL, Nikon HG DCF or LX L inthe US) I've noticed the Minox HG have a (much) narrower field of view. I wonder what the reason for this could be. Also, I'd like to hear opinions on how important FoV is to you.

 

Ciao,

     Lino

 

Lino,

 

I covered this already in your other post but, I'll paste the answer here as well...

 

 

Originally posted by lucznik lucznik wrote:

Optics manufacturers often place "stops" in their binoculars that will limit the overall field of view.  Presumably this is because they believe the consumer will be more concerned with the degree of image sharpness at the edges of the field rather than providing the absolute maximum field of view possible.  The Bushnell Elite and Discoverer models are good examples of this: The 10x Discoverer has a FOV of 340 ft. whereas the more expensive 10x  Elite has its FOV limited down to 314 ft. Obviously Bushnell has the technical ability to give the Elite the same wide FOV as their Discoverer but, have chosen to focus on the widest FOV that gives really great edge clarity instead.

 

Minox probably fits the same basic mold here.  They probably could provide a wider FOV but, that extra bit of viewing area would be distorted, just as it is for all other manufacturers as well. This is not to be considered a flaw with Minox.  Despite this ability, the company has decided to stop down the FOV a bit because like Bushnell, they feel consumers will prefer really good edge-to-edge clarity.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/29/2006 at 15:07
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Not familiar with the use of field stops in bino's. Riflescopes, some of the cheaper ones anyway, used these for the reasons that lucznik stated to improved image quality. I believe it was Tasco or Simmons that used these field stops in some of their variables with 50mm objectives to sharpen image quailty. These field stops will negate the benefit of 50mm objectives. When you gain field of view in designing bino's you will very often loose image quality as well. Unless the FOV is unusually small by comparison to others, I would take image quality above all else. The Minox HG's are said to be of excellant quality at a very reasonable cost by comparison to the other bino's mentioned.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 03:14
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lucznik wrote:
     Optics manufacturers often place "stops" in their binoculars that will limit the overall field of view...

 

I thought so. The thing is that, in the case of Minox, FoV seems to be much limited:

 

Roy Finn wrote:

     ...These field stops will negate the benefit of 50mm objectives...

 

I also suspect that. At least to some extent.

I actually posted those questions to this thread since Minox representative was here...

thought he might jump in

 

Anyone on the importance of a wide FoV? Or is it too subjective to list as a pro for binocs?

 

Lino

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 10:36
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

Not familiar with the use of field stops in bino's. 

 

Roy,

 

This is a quote from the aforementioned "Optical Instruments for the Observation of Nature:"

 

"The so-called "field of view" is restricted, by design, by an additional diaphragm, which is located in the image plane of the objective... This diaphragm provides a frame for the viewed object and eliminates blurring at the edges."

 

ggirino,

 

While FoV is very important, it is important that you distinguish in each optic the difference between the advertised FoV and the amount of actual useable image that is available.  These are not the same thing. Again, quoting from the Optical Instuments book:

 

"Special wide-angle eyepieces are available for particularly demanding requirements with a subjective field of view of at least 60 degrees.  Here again, however, caution is advisable. The sharpness of the image at the edges of cheap instuments, in particular, may diminish to a considerable extent, with the result that the large field of view claimed by the manufacturer is completely meaningless."

Furthermore, you probably have noticed that as you go up in magnification, the FoV declines.  This is a very important trade-off that involves some very real compromises.  Assuming equal quality optics, a 10x binocular will provide you with a significantly closer image than an 8x but, at the cost of a smaller FoV and (for some people more than others) increased handshake.  The 8x is technically steadier and provides the wider image field but, at the cost of not being able to view the desired object as closely. Only you can decide which you prefer. Personally, I don't experience undue handshake and I like to see the things I am looking at as close as possible so, I am willing to sacrifice a bit of the FoV to accomplish this. 

 

I also think that the importance of FoV is sometimes over-emphasized by its proponents to an somewhat unreasonable degree.  For example the FoV figures you quoted above are all measured at a distance of 1000 yds. This means that the difference in the field for your most extreme example, the 8.5x Minox (319.2 ft) and the 8x Zeiss FL (405 ft.) is 85.8 feet, which seems pretty large.  But, remember that this is at 1000 yards away. Most viewing with binoculars happens at much, much closer distances.  At a more normal 100 yards, the field of view between these two instruments differs by only 8.6 feet. That's not insignificant but, its also not a huge issue either.  Most casual optics users would not see the difference. These differences become even more insignificant when you compare optics of 10x+ magnification. Having said that, I should mention that, assuming we are dealing with optics of both the same magnification and also the same build-quality, I do appreciate having as wide a FoV as meaningfully possible.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 11:21
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lucznik wrote:

...the difference in the field for your most extreme example, the 8.5x Minox (319.2 ft) and the 8x Zeiss FL (405 ft.) is 85.8 feet, which seems pretty large.  But, remember that this is at 1000 yards away...

 

     I'm afraid I don't quite get it here. It's anyways 27% less field for the Minox (or 21% more field for the Zeiss), isn't that much?

 

Lino

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 11:42
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Sorry, the other way 'round: 27% more field for the Zeiss compared to the Minox or 21% less field for the Minox compared to the Zeiss.

 

Lino

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 12:44
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I apologize for not being clear. 

 

What I am suggesting to you is that the raw numbers don't tell the whole story. That 8.6 foot difference (at 100 yds distance) is not going to be noticed by any but the most extreme/fanatical optics users (and such guys are never totally pleased no matter how good the view.)  Most people place the thing they want to see in the very center of the image.  They rarely (if ever) look to the edges of the FoV.  So if one is a bit narrower than another (assuming comparable quality of the center image) they will never see, notice, or have cause to care about the difference. As I mentioned before, within the same magnification and assuming comparable quality, I will generally choose the optic with the wider FoV.  "Comparable quality" though, is a big assumption and you should always keep in mind that a wide field of view that has poor edge quality is no more useful than a narrow field that retains good sharpness from edge to edge.   What's more, that wide field of view is basically useless if the instrument is lacking in resolution, contrast, and/or accurate color rendition or if there are other optical abberations interfering with the quality of the image. Which would you prefer, a super-wide, bright, yet indistinct view of of the scene of interest or a somewhat narrower yet crystal clear view of the same vista? 

 

All of the instruments you listed are of very high quality so you would think the Zeiss would (at least on paper) be the "best" but, another factor that must be considered is the cost of the instrument.

 

The Minox you listed costs $750

 

The Zeiss Victory FL costs $1600 - a difference of 213%. In other words if you bought two Minoxes (one for you and one for the wife?), you would still not have spent the amount of money one Zeiss FL would set you back. Is that 21% FoV difference worth the extra cost?  Only you can decide.

BTW:

The Leica Ultravid costs $1745 - a difference of 232%. It offers a FoV advantage of 18%

The Swarovski EL costs $1770 - a difference of 236%. It also offers a FoV advantage of 18%

The Nikon Premier costs $1200 - a difference of 160%. It offers only a 13% FoV advantage.

If you choose to compare optics more in line with the Minox's price range, you will have to pay particular attention to the quality issues mentioned above as they will likely be more readily apparent. 

 

I'm not trying to suggest to you that FoV is unimportant or that you should ignore its implications for providing a satisfying viewing experience. I am only pointing out that FoV is only one of many things to be considered (including image quality, ergonomics, "speed" of the focusing mechanism, warranty service, etc) and that it is probably not the most important one of those things either. My suggestion here is simply that you don't make any decisions as to what is the best/most ideal binocular until you go and test them out for yourself. What looks really good on paper can sometimes be misleading and also what appears to be a disadvantage may in reality not be one at all.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 17:26
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"The so-called "field of view" is restricted, by design, by an additional diaphragm, which is located in the image plane of the objective... This diaphragm provides a frame for the viewed object and eliminates blurring at the edges."

 

lucznik, where is this info coming from and where are these "stops" being used, bino's, riflescopes or spotters. As you stated before image quality should be the most important attribute for consideration, followed by ergonomics, durability, build quality and reputation in no particular order.

 

ggirino, what are you going to be using these bino's for?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/30/2006 at 18:31
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Originally posted by Roy Finn Roy Finn wrote:

lucznik, where is this info coming from..

 

The information is coming from the book "Optical Instruments for the Observation of Nature" by Dr. Klaus-Dieter Linsmeier and currently published by Swarovski Optik. (It's original German title was Fernoptik in der Naturbeobachtung and it was first published in Germany in 2000 as a part of a series entitled Die Bibliothek der Technik. In this text Dr. Linsmeier applies the concept of the use of diaphragms to create aperture stops to all three optical instruments (binoculars, telescopes, and riflescopes.)  For example, when discussing light transmitting capacity Dr. Linsmeier writes:

Important elements of optical systems which have not been mentioned so far are diaphragms. By means of diaphragms, the objective restricts the incoming light beam, i.e. its rim achieves the effect of a so-called aperture stop. By analogy with the human eye, it is also referred to as the entrance pupil. Because the stop determines the light transmitting capacity of the instrument, the second specification number denotes the diameter of the objective in millimeters, e.g. 30 millimeters in the case of an 8 X 30 binocular. (p.22)

This is not the complete text and he goes into further detail but the above is sufficient to show that in this case, he is clearly using binoculars as his example in discussing the use of diaphragms. He explains in a different place that:

 

Instruments, which employ lenses or reflectors to enable a distant object to be viewed at an enlarged angle of vision, are referred to as binoculars and telescopes.  In principle, they consist of two essential components. The objective (or object lens) forms an image of a distant object in the focal plane, where it is enlarged for viewing by means of the eyepiece, equivalent to a magnifying glass.... (p. 15)

The text continues and describes/explains the three basic types of telescopes (Galilean, Kepler's, and Terrestrial.) In truth, all three common types of sports-optics (binoculars, riflescopes, and spotting scopes) are all basically the same thing.  Binoculars are just two telescopes mounted together by means of a bridge and riflescopes are just monocular-telescopes with a reticle and a provision for mounting onto a firearm. Obviously there are issues specific to each kind (alignment in binoculars, reticle placement in riflescopes, etc.) but they are all essentially just telescopes and involve the same design issues.  In fact, Dr. Linsmeier consistently refers to riflescopes and spotting scopes as "monocular telescopes" whereas he often calls the binocular a "binocular telescope" or "double telescope."  These are all more accurate terms as etymologically "monocular" and "binocular" are both  adjectives originally used to describe a particular characteristic of a given telescope, and were not nouns as they are used in today's language.  Through time and linguistic laziness we have simply reduced the proper phrases down to their current uses.

 

BTW, this is also why there is so much difficulty in dealing with the "correct" use of the word binocular as a noun.  Much discussion has been engaged as to whether you should properly say "a binocular," "a binoculars,"  "some binoculars," a "pair of binoculars," or just simply "binoculars."  The answer is none-of-the-above nor any other variant as the word binocular is really just an adjective.  It is to be used to describe an object, not to represent or take the place of that object. So if you wanted to use the term correctly, you would have to say "a binocular telescope." 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/05/2006 at 04:39
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Just a heads up the Minox HG's got recommended in Field & Stream this month.

 

I will say one thing I havent seen any in person but in the pictures they are a great lookin binocular.

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Hello again,

     yesterday I had a chance to look through a pair of the new HG 8.5x52 at a shop and I'd like to give a comment from a profane's point of view.

I first noticed a very good contrast in the image which likely adds to a perceivable high level of detail: house bricks some 100 m away (~ 330 ft) showed all their details and texture. This may probably mean nothing since I can neither quantify this contrast nor compare it to other makes/models.

     What disappointed me was a very noticeable fringing, chromatic aberration. Looking at a contrasty subject, a dark gray liberty building spire against an almost white cloudy sky (I purposely chose a black and white scene), a wide yellow halo was clearly visible to the right of the subject's edge and a thinner light purple one on the left. I found this quite disturbing. Now I don't know if this is normal even for high ends binos but, talking optics in general, I wouldn't stand if my photographic lenses showed such aberration.

     The focusing wheel also didn't feel as smooth as I would have liked (seemed also to have some play to it) and the diopter adjusting was rather stiff.

The rangefinder (actually a distance scale) built on the focusing wheel is limited to 100 m.

It sold at 799 euros at that shop .

 

     I would like to hear opinions on chromatic aberrations for the Victory 8x56 FL and the Ultravid 8x50

 

BTW, at 8.5 magnification I have already reached my limit for steady holding.

 

Lino

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I see, this reply is coming several years after your original; I just enjoy really clear optical views; and read so many outstanding ones regarding the Minox HG line; got the 10X43 and was so impressed with the "whiteness" of the white imgages and the clarity of these, in their light magnesium housings I wanted something I could comfortably hand hold with relative steadiness; that would be the 8.5X43.  They came in this afternoon and are just outstanding, clear and so flatly clear from edge to edge.  Of course the economies of these compared to any of the big threes has made it possible to have the 10X and the 8X for the cost of the Zeiss Victory bin.  Not saying that these are the same; however, when my untrained eyes held them up A-B I was still impressed with the Minox HG images.  Also the rubberized magneium alloy housing is so comfortably light, with a nearly "tacky" no-slip quality to the skin.

Something very important is that the diopter adjustment at the right eye side must be lifted from its seat, then one can adjust it for diopter changes; the salesman said, "so glad you called, we had someone who returned his and there was evidence of using a pliers to get the adjustment ring to turn.  Phew....didn't make that mistake; it did occur to me though as a possibllity for a fleeting moment.   I may trade the 10X's for more magnification and semi-permanently mount them on a tripod/stand for static viewing,    
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"Field of view - normally measured in degrees for marine binoculars - is a product of magnification and the size and position of field stops and has nothing to do with the size of the objective lens as many suppose".
 
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Q1uN2AIXESx/learn/learningcenter/home/binoguide.html

Edited by Bird Watcher - May/08/2010 at 18:29
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