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Mils and Moa Explained

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2008 at 08:39
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Optics GrassHopper
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There's a lot of confusion on "mils" and "moa". What really is a "mil". Is it based on 6283.2 mils (Marine) in a circle or 6400 mils (Army)? Same thing with moa vs "shooters" moa. Are the distance equations all the same?

Because I couldn't find a one source document on all these, I wrote a paper that discusses mathematically all these things and more. It is a revision of one that I did last year but this time I incorporated the Army mil (6400) and "shooters" moa. Plus I derived all the distance equations. I also cleaned it up a bit.

Plus last page has a Quick Reference Chart.

It's meant to be a one source document for any questions you might have and the whole thing doesn't have to be read front to back.

I'm not good at making web pages, so the best I could do the link below (the web site doesn't accept hot links), so you have to cut and paste. Any suggestions on how I could post this on-line at a better place would be appreciated. Bags


Link ( site doesn't accept hot links unfortunately so I had to put brackets on the link below to make it non-hot. Don't include the brackets [ and ] in the link.)



[http://bags.0catch.com/1A_The_Derivation_of_the_Range_Estimation_Equations.doc]



Edited by Chris Farris - January/15/2008 at 17:20
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2008 at 09:09
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That was a good read, albeit slow. A lot of good hard work..............thanks, it's saved for reference.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2008 at 12:30
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Thanks for the work on that paper.  Had to brush up on the trig to and read it again.  Keeping it as a reference as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2008 at 12:40
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 Good reference material on a timely subject.  It has popped up as a topic of discussion several times in the past week or two.

 BTW- I was unable to access it by your links, even by cut and pasting.  I was able to get to it by the link Bigdaddy posted in your thread in the Tactical scopes forum, but I understand that is not quite up-to-date?


Edited by RONK - January/15/2008 at 13:33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2008 at 14:31
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Optics GrassHopper
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Originally posted by RONK RONK wrote:

 

 Good reference material on a timely subject.  It has popped up as a topic of discussion several times in the past week or two.

 BTW- I was unable to access it by your links, even by cut and pasting.  I was able to get to it by the link Bigdaddy posted in your thread in the Tactical scopes forum, but I understand that is not quite up-to-date?
 
I just tried the link again and it worked. . Make sure you cut and paste it and don't include the brackets [  ]  in the paste. I tried to make it not hot by including those brackets in there but it didn't work. I can't edit my post. For some reason the website won't let me. Here is the link again.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2008 at 15:31
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 No matter what I try, I get a O -catch page with a hotlink error notification. I did the cut and paste thing without the brackets as you explained in your original post, to no avail. I'll have my wife try to open it for me later. I'm a computer moron, so it's probably something I'm doing wrong.
 Edited to add: Wife got it open Say%20What


Edited by RONK - January/15/2008 at 17:18
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/26/2008 at 19:49
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After failing several times with different approaches to get past the hotlink error, I copied the link location from the post, pasted it into a Google search, and got to the .doc easily that way. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2008 at 00:02
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I do the math in my head without all the fancy academic jazz.
 
Here it is, simply:
1: A mil is an angle that subtends 1/1000 of the range to the target.
 
example: At 1000 yards the mil subtends 1 yard. Put another way if the mill subtends or covers 1 yard, the distance to the target is 1000 yards.
 
2: Everything can be then thought of in fractions.
 
Example: If the mil subtends 18" the distance to the target is 500 yards.
 
Example: If the mil subtends 9" or 2 mils subtends 18",  the distance to the target is 250 yards.
 
Example: If the mil subtends 2 meters or 1/2 mil subtends 1 meter then the range to the target is 2000 yards and probably beyond the capability of your rifle.
 
Now if for example you are shooting at an elk with a kill zone of 9" and a height of 1 meter on the back then you can range to target and fire pretty easily using this method.
 
Did I make a mistake?  Smile
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2008 at 06:39
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Optics GrassHopper
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Critter,
 
Great way to think of it. My paper was just the background on what a "mil" and "moa are" and how they work. Like I said at the end of my paper:
 

Finally, you can now brain dump most of this math and definition stuff, and just use them like they’ve always been used.....but hopefully with a little better knowledge. Bags

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2008 at 09:43
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Optics GrassHopper
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O.K. Here are the results of my phone calls to Leupold, Nightforce, Schmidt & Bender, U.S. Optics, S.W.F.A and Bushnell Optics.

Before I get into my great conversation with U.S. Optics, here are the results:

They all use “real” mathematical millradians, (which is 3.6 inches at 100 yards based on 6283.2 mils per circle) for their reticles.

Except for one, they also all use “true” Moa (1.047 inches at 100 yards) for their reticle spacings.

U.S. Optics, who were very helpful, say’s they make their scopes in real “mils”, but make most of their “moa” scopes in “shooters” moa (1 inch at 100 yards). They do sell a “true” moa scope also for those who want it.

Their refurbishing of the Unertl scopes also reveled that the original Unertl scopes were in “real” mils (3.6 inches at 100 yards). That is how U.S. Optics makes their scopes now.

Therefore, since my paper is for “Rifle” shooters, Snipers, Tactical shooters (and not artillery persons) I will change my paper to reflect only the “real” millradians and both “true” and “shooters” moa.

I want this paper to be a one source, definitive, accurate guide to “mils” and “moa” for shooters and to finally put the controversy to rest.
 
My paper now reflects these facts.

Thanks,
runner (Bob)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/27/2008 at 18:47
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