New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Mills to course an adjustment for 1000y?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Mills to course an adjustment for 1000y?

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2013 at 19:58
smlekid View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: April/21/2004
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 48
I am looking at getting a new scope for a 1000y F class rifle I currently run a Vortex Viper and it is in MOA I haven't ever used a Mil scope was wondering how they are for long range targets they seem a little course in the clicks (.250 for my MOA scope against .336" for the mils) anyone using a Mil scope for F class?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/29/2013 at 21:22
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 3872
Can you really hold the difference? How about your rifle, is it up to the difference between the two?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2013 at 12:25
Cold Trigger Finger View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/20/2013
Location: Int.Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 188
It's 1.1" different at 1000 yards . That's not that big a difference.
Most of the ballistics tables I've run shows that the mid velocity 6.5 s need around 9 mils up at 1k . Seems like a lot of adjustment to have 1.1" make that big a difference. . ????
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/30/2013 at 16:17
smlekid View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: April/21/2004
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 48
Thanks guys the reason I'm asking is the super V ring at 1000y is 5" so 2.5" vs 3.6 does become relevant as to whether or not I can hold that tight well the rifles are shot off a bench and rear bag so there isn't as much human error as shooting off ones elbows
the wind is still the biggest killer I have been using hold off recently and a scope with hash marks should work out well I hope
the Calibre I'm using is a 6.5mm Super LR out of a 30' tube I should be able to get 2950-3000fps with 140gr bullets
I can usually shoot into the mid 50's with my 308 F std rifle
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2013 at 13:58
Cold Trigger Finger View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/20/2013
Location: Int.Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 188
What is the 6.5 LR?
What power scope r u using for that range?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/31/2013 at 17:22
smlekid View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: April/21/2004
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 48
http://www.6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php
I have 6-20X50 target dot on my 308 although the mirage where I shoot makes it hard to run much more than 14x some days
I was going to get a 260 Rem built but found the 6.5 super LR and liked the look of it hopefully it will be finished in Janurary
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2014 at 09:02
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: September/01/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 734
Guess I'll take ana slightly different view.

Mils are mils and Moa is Moa. Both are valid adjustments and either can be learned and made serviceable.

However, in this case competition shooting is being discussed and bullet placement in this case has to be quite precise.
A good shooter CAN hold to within the error of a mil vs moa at 1000 yards. In palma, the open sight shooters are trying to hold within 2 inches of their poa.   In F class the shooters try, most often successfully, to hold within an inch of poa for actual bullet impact.
It can be done and it's not that difficult if you learn to read your target hold off in inches on the target face. Using Mil dots to hold off or mils to adjust is what makes the other guy look really good :)

Go with the 1/4 moa adjustments. Get 1/8th moa if possible because you really can hold that at distance once you get your "stuff" all wired tight.

What ever you choose, good shooting!
Mike
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2014 at 09:18
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 18334
Excellent insight and advice as always, Mr McDonald.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2014 at 12:28
Cold Trigger Finger View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/20/2013
Location: Int.Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 188
So, now I find myself being tempted to get a mildot scope instead of a mil quad/ mil/ mil scope. .
So now I need to decide if the mil dot will be properly useful for my use.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2014 at 12:58
billyburl2 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/08/2009
Location: Cottonwood, AZ
Status: Offline
Points: 3872
It depends on what you are planning on using the rifle and scope for. I have an old 10x with the mil-dot reticle, and MOA adjustments, it works well. But my 3-15, and 5-20 with matching mil reticle and adjustments are a lot faster and easier to get on target. The comps I shoot are practical/tactical rifle matches. The steel targets are anywhere from 200 to 1100 yards, with wide swings of azimuth and varying ranges. On top of all this, there is a timed (10 second) follow-up shot. The ability to use the reticle to measure corrections, is important to me. So is FFP, because Arizona has Mirage sometimes too. And FFP allows me to use my reticle for hold-offs no matter what the scope is set on without any mental gymnastics! 

In the paper target world, I will defer to Mr. McDonald, he has much more experience than me. But as fine as the holds that are being discussed, wouldn't a finer reticle be wanted as well? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/01/2014 at 14:04
Mike McDonald View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman


Joined: September/01/2004
Status: Offline
Points: 734
In the paper world a decent medium to thin reticle works well. First or second plane isn't an issue here. My all time favorite ( because I'm a math nerd ) is the Nightforce NP1-RR. It measures everything you'd ever want and has great glass combined with a medium fine reticle.

In the tac comp world the reticle needs to be heavy enough to be seen against the target which might be in the wide open or concealed by the terrain features ( ran tac matches for years, we were sadists   http://www.opticstalk.com/smileys/Big%20Grin.gif )

In the NRA comp world, every target is known distance and of precise dimension. Nearly every shooter on the line can tell you what the ring dimension and separating band dimensions are, to the 1/16th of an inch. Makes extremely precise hold offs an easy thing to accomplish.

In the tactical comp world, while we may provide you with an accurate dimensional drawing of every target at the beginning of the match, that don't mean that we set them square, or did not use the terrain to partially mask the shooters view of said target. Or stretch saran wrap between two posts 37 yards in front of the target just to mess with your expensive laser ranging device.
Here is where a mil reticle in first focal plain will save your score. The mil quad is ideal for this type shooting due to its finer resolution and clear marking structure.

In either type comp, the guy who touches the windage dial is the guy you just beat. 99.9% chance he will get lost in the dial prior to the end of the match, and usually before the end of the string being fired.

Just my 2 pretax cents.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2014 at 02:15
Cold Trigger Finger View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/20/2013
Location: Int.Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 188
I will mainly use it for called in predators, caribou hunting and beginning to learn to range with a reticle. Price is important as long as its a bone tough scope.   . It's a fixed 6×42 SS .
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2014 at 02:18
Cold Trigger Finger View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/20/2013
Location: Int.Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 188
When I can I will switch over to a mil quad reticle but will prolly stick with the fixed 6 power. The scope will be used down to-50°f and the SS is garrenteed to work that cold.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2014 at 02:23
Cold Trigger Finger View Drop Down
Optics Apprentice
Optics Apprentice


Joined: December/20/2013
Location: Int.Alaska
Status: Offline
Points: 188
Originally posted by smlekid smlekid wrote:

http://www.6mmar.com/65_SuperLR.php
I have 6-20X50 target dot on my 308 although the mirage where I shoot makes it hard to run much more than 14x some days
I was going to get a 260 Rem built but found the 6.5 super LR and liked the look of it hopefully it will be finished in Janurary



I checked it out. Looks like a good round. I'm shooting the 6.5Creedmoor and for my purposes its perfect. But that LR Super looks pretty great. Ide be tempted to go with a 7 or 7.5 twist so I could shoot the longest bullets.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2014 at 03:01
smlekid View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: April/21/2004
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 48
1 in 8 is what my 'smith went with guys that are using this round seem to have no problems with that twist
the creedmore was another round I looked hard at
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/02/2014 at 03:11
smlekid View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: April/21/2004
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 48
Originally posted by Mike McDonald Mike McDonald wrote:

Guess I'll take ana slightly different view.

Mils are mils and Moa is Moa. Both are valid adjustments and either can be learned and made serviceable.

However, in this case competition shooting is being discussed and bullet placement in this case has to be quite precise.
A good shooter CAN hold to within the error of a mil vs moa at 1000 yards. In palma, the open sight shooters are trying to hold within 2 inches of their poa.   In F class the shooters try, most often successfully, to hold within an inch of poa for actual bullet impact.
It can be done and it's not that difficult if you learn to read your target hold off in inches on the target face. Using Mil dots to hold off or mils to adjust is what makes the other guy look really good :)

Go with the 1/4 moa adjustments. Get 1/8th moa if possible because you really can hold that at distance once you get your "stuff" all wired tight.

What ever you choose, good shooting!
Mike
Thanks Mike that pretty much is my thinking I really like the look of the Bushnell G2 reticle and the Elite tactical scopes here are not to badly priced pity they don't do a 1/8moa version
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Mills to course an adjustment for 1000y?"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Binos of course dryan_e Binoculars 1 11/6/2007 7:56:48 PM
Tactical Carbine Courses BGonzo Shooting 20
Milling stork23raz Shooting 12
Trijicon mill dot Muddy Buck Rifle Scopes 7
Mill Dots? newyorkjimbo Tactical Scopes 4
MILL-DOT OR BDC RETICLE? zrexxx Tactical Scopes 24
Leupold Tactical Milling Reticle flyspy Tactical Scopes 9 8/30/2007 2:20:25 AM
Scope Mount for Milled AK-47 SnoEngr Rifle Scopes 2 4/10/2005 1:58:51 PM
Leupold 1st Focal Tac. Milling ClutterMonkey Rifle Scopes 6 8/9/2005 12:25:15 AM
Zeiss Mill Dot Help nope Varmint Scopes 3 6/23/2007 5:40:46 AM


This page was generated in 0.391 seconds.