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Millet 6x25x56.....good LR shooting scopes?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2015 at 14:50
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I am wanting to get into some long range shooting 500-1000yd. I am working on a bit of a tight budget so i really need to keep my scope price at or under $500. I looked at a Millet 6x25x56 illuminated Mil-Dot with, .1 Mil click, 140 MOA adjustments on wind and elevation, 35mm tube. Anyone have experience with this scope? I know there are better scope but they are also going to cost me more. I have to stay in the budget. So is this going to be my best bang for my buck or is there a better scope for the money at this price range?

I am going to be shooting a 7.62x54R on a Archangel Stock Set. So I will be pushing the limits at 1000yds but I am hoping my skills will improve to allow me to get to that distance. :)

Thanks for any info
Brad
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Welcome to the OT.  Almost your exact issue (your budget's a little higher) has been discussed at length over the past two days in a different thread.  There are several great discussions by some really smart folks on the board over there.  I'll post the link to the other thread below.  Best of luck.

http://www.opticstalk.com/350-scope_topic41126.html
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2015 at 15:56
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O thanks, I didnt see the one just for scopes maybe i will post my question there. 

Thanks again
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2015 at 16:04
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Wait..nevermind, I didnt realize that was a mainly tactical forum.  Guess I cant read very well today LOL
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2015 at 16:47
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Originally posted by westerbk westerbk wrote:

I am wanting to get into some long range shooting 500-1000yd. I am working on a bit of a tight budget so i really need to keep my scope price at or under $500. I looked at a Millet 6x25x56 illuminated Mil-Dot with, .1 Mil click, 140 MOA adjustments on wind and elevation, 35mm tube. Anyone have experience with this scope? I know there are better scope but they are also going to cost me more. I have to stay in the budget. So is this going to be my best bang for my buck or is there a better scope for the money at this price range?

I am going to be shooting a 7.62x54R on a Archangel Stock Set. So I will be pushing the limits at 1000yds but I am hoping my skills will improve to allow me to get to that distance. :)

Thanks for any info
Brad

I have not taken my Mosins out to 1000 yards yet, but I plan to.  I do take them out to 600-700 yards with reasonable regularity without any issues.

Ever since Bushnell bought Millett a few years ago, I have not seen much good happen with that product line.

At $500 and under consider these:

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2015 at 18:07
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Can you tell me more about what it is that you are not happy with in the Millets?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/28/2015 at 18:15
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On the ones I have seen in the last few years, both the optics and mechanics were less than consistent.

Either way, the bottom line is that both Vortex Viper and SWFA SS have more reliable adjustments and better image quality.

They do not look as tacticool, but they actually work.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2015 at 21:05
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So I took a look at the sample list....
Anyone have opinions on Konus M-30 6.5x25x44 or 8x32x52 vs the Millet?

And what about Falcon?

Both are new brands to me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/29/2015 at 23:43
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What it boils down to, is pretty simple: If you have limited funds, you need to limit the features on a scope. Or the scope manufacture will skimp on the stuff that makes the scope work in the first place. Things like erector springs, that allow the scope to return to zero. 

 And at this price point, glass and the coatings on the glass, are not going to be the best. So that means the more magnification you use, the more the imperfections in the glass are going to show.

 You said you are just starting out, and hoping to improve your skills enough to really start stretching out the range. Give yourself a fighting chance and buy one of the scopes koshkin recommended. I would personally suggest the 12x SS, because at this price point it will have the robust build. And it is a really good scope where it counts, on the inside. I started out with a 10x SS, and it was good enough to take me out to 1200 consistently. I have since traded up to 5-20 SS, but that 10x still sits on my wife's 243 and returns to zero EVERY time the knobs are moved.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 10:39
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I checked out the Weaver SuperSlam looks nice and the Weaver Classics look good too. I like the idea of at least 24magnification. Now the reticle is not Mil-Dot, which i am not having to shoot for survival on the fly so not a complete deal breaker. What about the Weaver Classics? Would these both have a the elevation adjustments to reach 1000 with 7.62x54r?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 10:48
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What do most people like for a LRS reticle? I was just thinking learning to use Mil-dot would be a fun thing to learn to use in addition to making turret adjustments as needed.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 11:44
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I don't think so. But I don't know the ballistics of a 7.62x54r. The Weaver SuperSlam has about 35 inches of elevation at 100yds. So with a zero MOA base you will have about 17 inches of adjustment elevation left. And the 6-24 classic has even less with about 27 inches of elevation adjustment.

You want to target shoot from 500 to 1000yds. So that means you will be spinning the elevation a lot. That means you will need a scope that tracks very well. The only scopes I know of that does that in your price range and has the elevation adjustment range you need is the SS fixed power scopes.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 11:49
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Thanks Sparky...is the Classic Extreme any different than the Classic with elevation adjustments? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 11:59
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Westerbk,  I know it's a hard pill to swallow but truly.....  Go fewer features and better glass.  Better glass will ALWAYS trump magnification!!!!!   Repeat that several times, over and over!
 
You usually can't see bullet holes with subprime glass at distance.  Prime glass will show you the holes at a much LOWER MAGNIFICATION then sub-prime with MORE magnification. 
 
That fact is pretty hard to accept till you can compare side by side to really see the difference.   We've all been brought up in a more is better/ bigger is better society.  This is one instance it doesn't necessarily hold water....
 
Heck go to a range and make a pest of yourself asking if you can look thru different scopes.  Doing that in a store is basically a waste of time.  It shouldn't take you long to grasp what we're telling you about beetter glass trumping magnification.  If you do go to a range and peak be sure to compare with scopes at same magnification.  What you will find is you can turn down the mag on good glass much much farther and still see holes. 
 
Another thing about high mag scopes....  unless you plop down quite a ply of dough the upper magnifications are quite often un-usable.......
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 12:07
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Well said, Bud.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 12:26
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So Glass should be first Priority I get that.

Now what about Reticles? All come down to what you like or is one better for LRS than another?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 12:27
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Originally posted by Sparky Sparky wrote:

I don't think so. But I don't know the ballistics of a 7.62x54r. The Weaver SuperSlam has about 35 inches of elevation at 100yds. So with a zero MOA base you will have about 17 inches of adjustment elevation left. And the 6-24 classic has even less with about 27 inches of elevation adjustment.

You want to target shoot from 500 to 1000yds. So that means you will be spinning the elevation a lot. That means you will need a scope that tracks very well. The only scopes I know of that does that in your price range and has the elevation adjustment range you need is the SS fixed power scopes.

The ballistics depend on the bullet he uses and which version of the Mosin-Nagant he has.  If he has a Russian Mosin, he is stuck with 0.311 bullets where the selection is somewhat limited.

For longer range shooting with a 0.311 barrel his best bet is to us Sierra MatchKing 174gr HPBT which typically needs about 11mrad to get to 1000yards with a 200yard zero.  That assumes about 2650fp starting velocity which is a safe load with a couple of my longer barreled Mosins.  I have a couple of  custom Mosin projects in the works and when the actions come back from McGowen with new barrels, that will be the bullet I work with the most.

Prvi makes a reasonably accurate and reasonably affordable 182gr load that a couple of my rifles like.  That one takes about 12.5 mrad to get to 1000  yards with 200 yard zero.  I have chrono'ed this load from a few of my Mosins and depending on which rifle it is, I have chrono'ed this load anywhere from 2590 to 2680fps.

My M28-76s have 0.308 bores so with 308 bullets I can get better ballistics simply due to better bullets being available.

Either way, to get a Mosin out to 1000yards, you should be looking to have at least 40MOA of available adjustment after sight in.

In practical terms, that means that you want a scope with at least 60MOA of internal adjustment and rings that let you add some cant to the system.

With most inexpensive scopes, you want to stay away from the outer 10MOA of adjustment, because it gets very non-linear and often inconsistent there.

To re-iterate what I said earlier: in your price range, there are very few scopes that do what you want to do with consistency.

Going with a high magnification inexpensive scope is asking for trouble.  As far wanting 24x goes...  the more magnification the scope has the better the optical quality has to be and the harder it is to get a lot of adjustment range.

I would stay clear of that.

ILya
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Originally posted by westerbk westerbk wrote:

Thanks Sparky...is the Classic Extreme any different than the Classic with elevation adjustments? 


Not enough to do what you want it to do.

Reread what Budperm said above. That is good info. And the SS glass is good enough to do what you want. Plus they are very repeatable in their adjustments. Which for you is going to be very important.

And if this means anything to you. But I am going to rescope an AR 50 for up to 1300yds. And since I don't get to shoot it very often. 50 cals are banned from a lot of ranges. I don't want to spend a great deal but I will spend what I need to. The only scope I am considering is a SS in either 10x, 12x or 16x. I was leaning towards the 16x but I am now leaning towards the 12x. Also 10x at 1000yds is similar to no magnification at 100yds. You do not need to see the texture on the paper, not that that is going to happen anyway to make accurate shots.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 12:53
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Originally posted by westerbk westerbk wrote:

So Glass should be first Priority I get that.

Now what about Reticles? All come down to what you like or is one better for LRS than another?

Glass is not priority #1.  Priority #1 for long range shooting is mechanical repeatability.  You will be twisting turrets a lot.

Image quality trumps magnification, but it takes second seat to mechanical quality.

As far as reticles go, it is really very personal.

I am very used to various mil-based reticles, but it is pretty personal.  

SWFA's Mil-Quad is probably one of my favourites, but I am also a big fan of Gen 2 XR in high power scopes as well as EBR-2 

ILya
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Yes I will be using a barrel from a Russian Nagant. I have shot the Prvi 182 out of my Tula Sniper with the 3.5x and it likes them very well. So I plan on starting with them. Plus they are brass cases :)

But bottom line guys $500 is the max i can spend now and for a while. So I want the best thing I can get and best Magnification I can get for $500. So Millet 6x25x56, side focus, .1Mil Click, Illum Mil Dot, 140MOA adjustment, locking turret, Resettable Dials to Zero, 35mm tube, sun shade, side focus, plus 2yr store warranty that covers ANYTHING and EVERYTHING all with tax for $539....honestly its hard to think about passing up.

So if I am not going to get that, I need comparisons to that at that price point. I know there are better scopes out there, But i am not going to buying them. I can only get what i can get. At least I am not trying to only spend $200 LOL
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I will take another look at the fixed SS.... honestly didnt look that closely since I still might be using it for hunting as well and might need to dial back the magnification for a closer shot.
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The 3-9x42 SS for everything on your wishlist for $599 (you already posted a scope over $500, so I figured, why not?".  You'll be much happier with it for hunting, and the 9x with the quality of the glass will really surprise you.  It's not "sold" as an HD glass, but it's as close as you can get without being HD, unless it really is HD and just not sold that way.  Wink
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 13:44
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Originally posted by westerbk westerbk wrote:

Yes I will be using a barrel from a Russian Nagant. I have shot the Prvi 182 out of my Tula Sniper with the 3.5x and it likes them very well. So I plan on starting with them. Plus they are brass cases :)

But bottom line guys $500 is the max i can spend now and for a while. So I want the best thing I can get and best Magnification I can get for $500. So Millet 6x25x56, side focus, .1Mil Click, Illum Mil Dot, 140MOA adjustment, locking turret, Resettable Dials to Zero, 35mm tube, sun shade, side focus, plus 2yr store warranty that covers ANYTHING and EVERYTHING all with tax for $539....honestly its hard to think about passing up.

So if I am not going to get that, I need comparisons to that at that price point. I know there are better scopes out there, But i am not going to buying them. I can only get what i can get. At least I am not trying to only spend $200 LOL

What mount do you have on your Mosin?

Oh, and comprehensive specs do not necessariliy make a good scope.  You'll be aiming with the scope, not with its specsheet.

ILya
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I dont have the mount yet. I am placing it on a Pro Mag Archangel Stock. So I will need to get a rail for it. If i go with the Millet I will just need to get a rail. It comes with rings.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/30/2015 at 14:12
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Originally posted by westerbk westerbk wrote:

I dont have the mount yet. I am placing it on a Pro Mag Archangel Stock. So I will need to get a rail for it. If i go with the Millet I will just need to get a rail. It comes with rings.

Ah, I see.

Scoping a Mosin is a little different than scoping a conventional bolt gun.

Are you comfortable drilling and tapping a receiver?

If you want to go long range with a conventional scope, you need to get a RSI mount and then drill and tap the receiver.

The only other sorta workable alternatives are the Jmeck mount and the a converted PU side mount.  Neither one of these two is sturdy enough to support a large scope like the Millet LRS you are hell bent on getting contrary to all advice you have received so far.

ILya
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