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MILL-DOT OR BDC RETICLE?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2009 at 19:28
zrexxx View Drop Down
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i AM IN THE PROCESS OF BUYING A SCOPE,I HAVE READ ALL THE MILL-DOT INFO BUT I AM NOT SURE IF BDC RETICLE WOULD BE EASIER TO USE. Any help from experienced shooters would be appreciated.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2009 at 19:38
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  A laser rangefinder and a BDC are probably EASIER to use.
 A trained shooter using a Mil-Dot scope doesn't need a laser rangefinder. He has one in the reticle, as long as he knows how to use it and if he knows about how big his target is.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2009 at 19:43
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Optics GrassHopper
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I am still undecided, I think I would like to learn how to use the mill-dot sight, but it seems the learning curve would be longer to become proficient in a usable or practical time frame.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2009 at 19:54
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 It's also a skill you need to use often to stay proficient at.

I believe most shooters would be happier with a laser, at least for ranging.
 
I'm different...

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2009 at 21:09
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show me your sheep!!

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Why don't you check out www.mil-dot.com an see what you think.  I qucikly became hooked on the mildots.  I find I can calculate range peetty good .  Its the windage thats giving me hemroids!  Nice thing about learning this system....no batteries required.  Although range cards and cheatsheets are a huge help!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/08/2009 at 21:23
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Get a Mil-Dot Master from SWFA along with the mil-dot scope.  It will save a lot of heartburn.  Also get a Slope-Doper.  You can use a laser rangefinder, but if your batteries ever fail or conditions aren't right for the laser, you have the mil-dot, which is an exceptional range finder once you learn to use it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 00:59
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Where do you get a Slope Doper?  I'm assuming it takes the headache out of angles up and down.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 05:54
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I assume a slope doper is a range finder???
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 08:47
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Slope Doper is available from a number of places.  It aids in determination of shooting angle.  It is NOT a range finding device. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 11:00
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If you go with a BDC reticle, you can't use the reticle as reliably to make corrections for a second shot since the gradations aren't uniform. Also, a BDC reticle may or not match your load well. In which case, you might as well get the advantages of a mil-dot or other uniformly gradated reticle.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 13:13
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Where do you get a Slope Doper?  I'm assuming it takes the headache out of angles up and down.



http://www.badgerordnance.com/productgroup.php?id=accessories

I recommend the gen 2.


Several people make them, and you really don't need one unless you shoot long range and/or big angles.

I like mine, but I take it off when it isn't needed.

It is not a range estimation device but rather helps calculate an accurate distance for a shot taken at an angle (as opposed to a shot taken at an angel.)

God gear.  Like a rail-mounted level and like FFP: if you don't know if you need it, you don't need it.





Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 13:15
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Be advised that a BDC is only as accurate as you verify it is.  A mil dot is a mil dot, it has no drop associated with it, just an angle subtention; to be meaningful, you gotta know a few things.  The same is true of a BDC.

There's no free lunch or easy way out - unless you hire a really good shot and have him make it for you.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 13:33
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I think I will go with the mill-dot and just learn the math and how to shoot with it.
It sounds like the way to go with out having to have a range finder.  I looked at the mill-dot site and started to do the demos. I am slowly catching on. I now understand the basic concepts of mill dots. It is just going to take time to learn them and use them enough to make it practical. Thanks for all the help...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 13:36
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Be advised, you really want mil-adjustment turrets if you are planning to learn the mil dot.

Also, forget the math, buy a mil dot master and don't worry about your calculator dying on you (voice of experience!)

And, like Ronk said, to do it well, you gotta do it often,  ranging (accurately) is a very perishable skill.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 18:40
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Wholeheartedly agree with Rancid above.  To be just learning mil-dots, it's MUCH easire to learn with turrets that adjust for mils.  You won't have to do the quick math involving 3.6"/100yds.
 
To effectively use the mil-dots for hold-overs and windage, you MUST know how your rifle shoots your ammo.  Get a very good no-wind zero at each range you expect to shoot at (100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 650, 700 etc).  Now, us that no-wind zero to shoot groups at your "zero" yardage (200 for me) on a nice, constant-wind (like a 3 or 5mph wind) day.  This gives you an idea of how your windage will go in comparison to ballistics charts.  It sounds complex, but do it a couple times and you'll get the idea of it pretty quick.
 
Also, you'll want to make a verification target for your scope (if it's a variable) that has 3.6" squares on it.  This lets you find the EXACT magnification that the mils subtend 3.6".
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 18:56
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Any recomendations on scopes that come in mills on the turrets.  Variable power,4-15 possibly and in the $350.00 range.  I like the nikon scopes.  I have always had excellent clarity and longetivity in their cameras. I figuered their scope glass woud be just as good,
but I don't think their scopes come with mills on their turrets. I beleive you have to do the calculations, and I like your idea better.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 19:32
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Check the last post and give me some options. I think all you guys have some great advice.
I now I would have bought something I wouldn't of been pleased with right from the get, if I didn't come here first.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 20:34
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Keep in mind that rangefinding with a reticle is based on knowing as close as possible the actual size of an object in the field of view. I'm not qualified to say how well it works with a man-sized target, e.g. 2 meters, but with a game animal, where you're dealing with smaller sizes, e.g. 18" for a deer from shoulder to brisket, even a difference of an inch or two would throw your range estimate off enough to make a poor shot. I rely on a rangefinder for that.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 21:27
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X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

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That is an excellent point. I use a reticle to range when shooting steel, but I know the size of the target exactly. For things that you don't know the exact size of, you won't be nearly as accurate.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/09/2009 at 21:51
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I know Falcon does, Millett might (have mil turrets and a mil reticle.)


And you do need to know the exact dimensions of your target to range it well.  Off by a few inches at 400+ yards = miss!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2009 at 13:43
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you never said what you are using it for or what range you what it to be good for!! The ballistic plex can be matched to almost any caliber, any bullet out to 500 yards with a one time research. You just have to choose the bullet that suits the predetermined drop. You can get the best of both worlds with a burris mill dot ballistic plex. I suggest between a 3-12 and a 4-16 for power to fit most applications for hunting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2009 at 15:01
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I've used a couple of BDC scopes. Out to 300 yards they are reasonably accurate (for the 223). Beyond 300 yards, even if the BDC is calibrated for your bullit weight, the BDC rarely matches your bullit's point of impact, due to atmospheric conditions or ballistics. Just my experience.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2009 at 21:32
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Originally posted by elkslayer elkslayer wrote:

You just have to choose the bullet that suits the predetermined drop. 


That, IMO, can be just as much of an argument against using a BDC reticle. There are other criteria that can go into selecting a bullet. What if you do some hunting at long distances, e.g. for antelope and want to use a 150 gr. ballistic tip but later switch to a 180 gr. partition that expands better at 50-150 yards for hunting elk in dense timber?

To be fair, you could use any bullet with a BDC reticle, you just have to be comfortable with (and remember/record) the drops at untidy distances, like 379 yards, 458 yards, 534 yards, etc.

(And I just realized this is in the tactical forum so may not be that applicable!)


Edited by jonoMT - April/24/2009 at 21:33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 08:41
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ranging with bdc reticles is more knowing the drop of the load your using between 200 and 300 yds. this drop factor is provided by companys like swaro or they can be built by the shooter. As with any ranging the target ht is a must, and if shooting in high plains areas may be difficult as there is nothing to even compare the target with locally. As an example the swaro puts the top of the recticle on the back of target and eyeball down to the bottom select the grid marker. divide the target ht, by the bullet drop then times this by which hash mark is at the bottom of the target times 100 to get distance. This also works with zeiss Rapid Z reticles which can easy be used for ranging as the upper grip markings are in 2 moa constant increments. the cone of fire for a 10 inch target antelope will allow almost 20 yds in front of the target and 20 yds behind the target so remembering odd yardages isn't really a problem. Additionally exbal and zeiss programs allow the selection of turning the scope power down to hit the "ideal" combination of having all the numbers come out. The changes in ballistic impact due to atmospheric changes, temp, humidity, elevation are the same for mildot as well as bdc and don't enter into it. The rapid z 800 is capable of any hits out to 800 if the gun is up to it. I also use a z1000 in a Diavari 6x24 on a 300 wsm that will hit to 1000 yds just as consistently as any dial in technique.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2009 at 08:46
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And this is with just the scope, using a rangefinder with a bdc is so fast you can't work the controls fast enough, odd distances are easily handled by hold off or down on the nearest hash mark of the reticle you are using. NF reticles are a little slower as there is no index for the eye to follow (numbers). This also applys in using mildto or tmr reticles, mp8 for hold over reticles its easier to get your count lost.
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