New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Mil-Dot for Squirrels?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

Mil-Dot for Squirrels?

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options Page  1 2>
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2013 at 08:06
themoose View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: January/12/2013
Location: Newburg, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 13
I'm an old fart looking to upgrade my squirrel hunting rig... I currently have two CZ455's and was thinking that I may want to put on a mil-dot scope to help with holdover on ranges from 10yds out to ?... I'm really interested in hearing from someone else who may have tried this...

I currently have two AO variables with duplex reticles and end up using guestimate in my holdover... I do set up tables from range trips and tape them to the ocular lenses... but thought the mildot may improve the accuracy for "eyeball" shots...

I appreciate any and all feedback... I'm not looking to break the bank for a new scope, but am wanting to keep the price under $300... not looking for anything bigger than a 14-16X max.

Thanks in advance for your help,

TheMoose
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2013 at 10:01
FireEMT5 View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: September/07/2010
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Status: Offline
Points: 307
A mil dot would give you more options, especially if you use different brands of ammo or weights of bullets.  Better yet would be a scope that has turrets that match the reticle - mil based clicks and a mil reticle.  The other option would be a moa based reticle with moa clicks.  Personal preference there.
 
You already stated that you spend some time at the range figuring out your drops.  Here in lies the beauty of a mil or moa based reticle.  With a little work on your part which you are all ready doing, you can use your new reticle for any load or bullet weight just like you would a BDC reticle and either dial in your drop (dope) or hold over.
 
If you are looking for a fixed power, there are a couple SS scopes that would work, if you are wanting a variable in your price range, I'll let others chime in.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2013 at 13:01
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
I have a mil-dot scope that is a tasco varmint scope for squirrels it works just fine.

Maybe try the Sightron Mil-dot on close out right now
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2013 at 13:28
stickbow46 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar

Joined: January/07/2009
Location: Benton, Pa
Status: Offline
Points: 4673
Welcome to the OT!
 
From one old fart to another old fart I use a SWFA SS 10X mil dot scope to take out ground hogs from 10yds out to 300yds.The scope is made like a tank,has MD reticle cost $300 ,holds Zero with the best of them & comes with a fantastic warrenty.
 
It will serve you well in Pa......Ernie
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2013 at 14:51
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
Another thought would be 6x fixed or wait for the 1-6x SWFA SS.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2013 at 21:11
themoose View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: January/12/2013
Location: Newburg, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 13
First, Thanks to all for sharing your ideas... I would be lying to say that I fully understand the range of options or their full impact to my proposed applications.  After reading your suggestions, I did do a little more research, particularly on the SS 10X and here is where some confusion clouds my balding head... as I see it there are at least two options with the 10 X 42 for $299... one with MOA and one MILRAD and looking at the substension of the optics they do look different.. Does the MILRAD add a finer degree of measurement(shop placement options for holdover) in a short range hunting situation?   (One reason that I am contemplating the SS10X is that I have a 300 Weatherby Mag sitting in my safe that has probably less than 50 rounds thru it...It currently has a Leu VARI III on it, but it would be a long range target/hunting contender with the SS 10X if I don't like the scope on the 22lr...

As far as the Sightron... I'm not sure I'm looking at the right model... I would only be interested in one that can be used for close range targets with either an AO capability or a parallex set at 50yds...

A fellow on another forum suggested that I look at a PrimaryArms 4-14... any ideas about that?

I know that I am rambling now, but just back from an all day drive to see my grandson swim in a meet...

Again, Thank you very much for your help.

TheMooseExcellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/12/2013 at 21:29
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
The MQ reticle allows for many more measurements as you implied.  It is a nice reticle for what you are looking for especially if you can get behind it a lot and get used to it.

Forget the Sightron and get the SWFA SS.  The robust build of the SS is better.

I think 10x may be too much mag for the less than 100 yard shot but that is just me...

If it is your preference I think it would be ideal for the 300.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/13/2013 at 17:18
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Online
Points: 13882
SWFA SS 6x42 Tactical Riflescope SWFA SS 6x42 Tactical Riflescope
Stock # - SS6X42
  • Matte
  • Mil-Dot
  • 30mm
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • 1/4 MOA
$299.95 < id="ctl00_wpm_CategoryGrid_ctl04_ProductList_ctl01_Price_VS" name="ctl00$wpm$CategoryGrid$ctl04$ProductList$ctl01$Price$VS" value="1xINAv+bVykheX3BOt7ImHh+68U564t+p9SQknkBKc+k+TQuBAvvexiDVpW+VC5m" ="">
SWFA SS 6x42 Tactical Riflescope SWFA SS 6x42 Tactical Riflescope
Stock # - SS6X42MQ
  • Matte Finish
  • Patented Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm Tube
  • Rear Focus
  • OK for .50 cal
  • .10 Mrad
$299.95 < id="ctl00_wpm_CategoryGrid_ctl04_ProductList_ctl07_Price_VS" name="ctl00$wpm$CategoryGrid$ctl04$ProductList$ctl07$Price$VS" value="D6BQy1qqT1hIovNmcQ9kOmjSGleal/9MxAHMcu+ooRzVQgkL9fqCidBCMvJApEP0" ="">
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/14/2013 at 13:00
sholling View Drop Down
Optics Professional
Optics Professional
Avatar

Joined: May/24/2008
Location: Hemet CA
Status: Offline
Points: 892
It's not mil-dot but I don't see why you can't use the graduation marks on this one the same way. It's a good scope.  

Weaver 4-16x42 Classic V Rifle Scope.223 Ballistic XWeaver 4-16x42 Classic V Rifle Scope
Stock # - 849414WEA
  • Matte
  • .223 Ballistic X
  • 1"
  • Adjustable Objective
$329.95
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2013 at 22:27
themoose View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: January/12/2013
Location: Newburg, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Again, thanks to all for offering their views... I'm leaning pretty hard towards the 10x42 SS... plan on taking my two CZ's to the range when I can and play with them at 10x settings to get the feel of what using fixed power is like... I mostly use 12 or 14x on the scopes for punching paper now, but when I did a little squirrel hunting this fall, I used 8x most of the time... I would like to lay my hands(actually "eyes") on the 10X MilQad reticle to see what it really looks like...

If nothing else, I may end up trying a Mueller APT as a cheap alternative... I own two Muellers( a 2-7 Multi-shot used for deer hunting and an APV sitting on one of the CZ 455's now).

Kindest regards and again thank you for your input...

TheMoose
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2013 at 17:23
themoose View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: January/12/2013
Location: Newburg, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 13
I got to spend a little range time today.  Not having any experience with a Mil-Dot scope and only a vague working knowledge of the math involved I thought I would try a different approach to see if a Mil-Dot equipped scope would help me with putting together a better squirrel hunting rig...
I have been trying to determine what would be a good scope and many of you have provided some good advice... and, with that advice, I tried to come up with an approximate way to see if a mil-dot would help... I chose to shoot  a series of targets from 10-90 yds(100yd data discarded as wind and fatigue setting in).  I used a CZ455 FS shooting Wolf Match Rifle ammo(std vel).. the gun was scoped with a Simmons 4-12 AO air rifle scope set @ 10X... All yardages were laser ed with a Swarovski range finder.  I chose a 30 yard zero to perform the test... once the rifle was sighted in at that range both elevation and windage turrets were zeroed.  I fired groups at the various ranges and measured the drop from the "0" position(30yd sight in).  Then adjusted elevation to correct POI to POA for each target..

I was able to determine how much elevation to dial in for each distance chosen and was able to repeat that to a fair degree of accuracy given the conditions... So I know that my current rig will work for accurate short(hunting) ranges... but I would like to ask those of you who have MIL-Dot experience if you could look at the drop measurements that I recorded to see if a 10X Mil-Dot scope or one calibrated at 10X would eliminate the dialing for each range... below is the list of target range and drop recorded...

            10 yds                   -7/8 "
            20 yds                   -3/8"
            30 yds                      0
            40 yds                   -3/8"
            50 yds                   -7/8"
            60 yds                  - 2 1/4"
            70 yds                  - 3 1/4"
            80 yds                  - 4 1/2"
            90 yds                  - 8" 

Thanks for your help.  I know that this is a cumbersome way of asking for information, but I don't know a resident expert in my area to help.

Kindest regards,

TheMoose            



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2013 at 18:28
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
I am not the proper educator but I might be able to help you understand the MIL-DOT and how it  DOES NOT WORK.

The MIL-DOT only creates math it does not eliminate it.  You will always have to dial for each range.

If you will the "Dials" are the calculator keys.

They help you to = your shot onto a target.  It requires computation.  All done by the DOTS if you will and your dials.

You could look at custom dials for your bullet and your drops that you recorded.

Or you could take your mil dot and divide it by the distances you chose and the drop you recorded and make a Data On Personal Equipment sheet.

They do not make any scope on the market that will do 10-90yards as you want where you don't have to dial anything.

They do however make certain scopes that have BDC reticles that are ok if you can find ammo that is within the range of FPS and GR and elliptical drop or slop angle.  BSA makes these for 22lrs and I believe some like them...


http://swfa.com/BSA-Sweet-22-Riflescopes-C48.aspx

Trajectory compensated scopes for target and varmint shooters. Designed for the .22 bullet, the trajectory is compensated from 50 to 175 yards. Features a quick change turret system with 3 drums included for 36, 38 and 40 grain bullets.


Displaying items 1 - 4 of 4 Sort: 
BSA 2-7x32 Sweet 22 Riflescope Plex BSA 2-7x32 Sweet 22 Riflescope
Stock # - S2227X32SP
  • Matte
  • Plex
  • 1"
  • Side Focus
  • 50 to 175 yards Bullet drop precisely calculated to compensate for the elliptic drop of a 36, 38 & 40 grain .22 bullet
$104.95
Add BSA 2-7x32 Sweet 22 Riflescope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:
< id="ctl00_wpm_CategoryGrid_ctl04_ProductList_ctl01_Add2Cart_KitComponent_129_0" name="ctl00$wpm$CategoryGrid$ctl04$ProductList$ctl01$Add2Cart$KitComponent_129$0" ="">
BSA 3-9x40 Sweet 22 Riflescope Plex BSA 3-9x40 Sweet 22 Riflescope
Stock # - S2239X40SP
  • Matte
  • Plex
  • 1"
  • Side Focus
  • 50 to 175 yards Bullet drop precisely calculated to compensate for the elliptic drop of a 36, 38 & 40 grain .22 bullet
$99.95
Add BSA 3-9x40 Sweet 22 Riflescope to Cart
More Details »

Optional Accessories:
< id="ctl00_wpm_CategoryGrid_ctl04_ProductList_ctl02_Add2Cart_KitComponent_130_0" name="ctl00$wpm$CategoryGrid$ctl04$ProductList$ctl02$Add2Cart$KitComponent_130$0" ="">
BSA 3-9x40 Sweet 22 Riflescope
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2013 at 18:32
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
Info I need to make you a ballistic table or reference chart will be your increments or dials correction.

1/4 or 1/8 or .1 or 1...

You already provided the drop and impact for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2013 at 19:39
themoose View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: January/12/2013
Location: Newburg, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Thank you so much 338Lapua..... I genuinely appreciate the time you took providing your answer...I guess I didn't accurately represent/articulate what my expectations were from the mildot equipped scope... I didn't think that a match would be possible for the range increments with drops that I provided that would cover the ranges I provided... I would however, like to better understand if the substensions of the milrad reticle(the one I'm most interested in) would provide a better presentation of reference points than traditional crosshairs would provide...and.... I would hope that to some degree I could use the existing substensions for correct holdover without dialing in the changes... thinking here of hunting applications and reducing human error...  I'm having a hard time stating this correctly, but would be interested in using the existing reticle divisions for holdover.

Thanks again,

Themoose
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2013 at 19:42
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
That is readily available.

SWFA will ship you a near weatherproof card to carry with you with your ammo and supplies...

10x


http://www.opticstalk.com/uploads/298/10XReticle.jpg

6x




http://www.opticstalk.com/uploads/298/6XReticle.jpg


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2013 at 19:47
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
What you are stating is possible the problem is your distance and deviation will end up in between subtensions  or Mil hashes and or diamonds if you will.

It will be hard for you to find one holdover pattern to match your changes in drop but again you could record your impacts and chart them on the Card Provided in color to correspond to your ammo.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2013 at 19:51
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
I suggest calling SWFA and getting some over the phone help call when they first open as they are not as busy (I think) in the AM...

I am trying to recruit some help to more easily explain this.

I believe I just mix my words sometimes.

I will try to simplify but I hope it doesn't confuse you.

Your first range will 10-20 will near be the same <> the 80-90 will be two different <>  <> on the scope...

The 6x in my opinion will work better than the 10x when I overlay the Impact or Drop you recorded...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2013 at 19:58
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
Here we go.

I was looking for this.

Think about this below... look at the distances and what you can interpret from the pics with the reticles.



http://www.opticstalk.com/swfa-ss-classic-line-in-mil-mil_topic32195_post459385.html?KW=subtensions#459385



Edited by 338LAPUASLAP - January/16/2013 at 20:04
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2013 at 20:30
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
Did this help?


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/16/2013 at 20:47
themoose View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: January/12/2013
Location: Newburg, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Absolutely!   It was of great help... I just finished sending you a private message in response...

Thank you for a very detailed message...

TheMoose
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 16:06
Jon A View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: March/14/2008
Location: Everett, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 660
See if this helps.  These are your drops converted to mils:


YDS Inches Mils
10 -0.875 -2.4
20 -0.375 -0.5
30 0 0.0
40 -0.375 -0.3
50 -0.875 -0.5
60 -2.25 -1.0
70 -3.25 -1.3
80 -4.5 -1.6
90 -8 -2.5


So with that scope you could either simply dial the number on the turret or hold the value with the reticle.  For example, on a 90 yd shot the hold is 2.5 Mils.  If you look on the pic above, the diamonds are full mils the hash marks are 1/2 mils.  So you would hold on the hash mark below the second diamond down.  They obviously don't always come out nicely in 1/2 mil increments, but it's pretty easy to "interpolate with your eyeball" to the nearest 1/10th Mil with a reticle that has 1/2 Mil marks.

For your use I would definately suggest the 10X Mil/mil over the MOA--the MOA will need to use different values if you hold with the reticle vs. dialing.  When they match you can do their interchagably.  Also the standard mildot in the MOA version has big dots that will tend to cover more of the target (which can be a worry on such small targets).  The Mil version with the mil-quad has hollow diamonds instead so you'll always be able to see the target.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 16:18
themoose View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: January/12/2013
Location: Newburg, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Jon A...

   Great info... thank you for your input... Thinking that the 10X mil/mil will be a good tool for me...I'm going to a gunshow this weekend and will look there... unlikely they will have what I'm looking for exactly, but I may be able to look over some alternatives... but right now the SS is at the top of my list... again thank you ...

Kindest regards,

TheMoose
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 17:39
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
DO not buy any of the scopes you will find at a Gunshow.

Save yourself the time and energy and order one From SWFA.

No reticle compares for what you are wanting to do.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/17/2013 at 19:16
themoose View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper
Avatar

Joined: January/12/2013
Location: Newburg, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 13
I don't plan on buying one there. What I would like to do is actually look at mil dot to see if that is the direction really want to go. There are no local gun shops close to me that have any selection to review
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2013 at 12:27
338LAPUASLAP View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar
Scope Swapper

Joined: October/17/2009
Location: STATESIDE
Status: Online
Points: 2455
ok.
I have friends that get excited about buying a mil dot scope for $100 that has big knobs and green lights and red  ilumination and a laser and a can opener.
They are cheap don't track and are marketing tools for people on a budget and those looking for a "deal"...
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  1 2>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "Mil-Dot for Squirrels?"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Mil-quad vs. Mil-dot onfinal Rifle Scopes 4
Mil Quad or Mil Dot ? bcraig Rifle Scopes 3
looking for a mil dot scope CD82 Rifle Scopes 4
MeoTac 4-16x44 Special Mil Dot Greggo Tactical Scopes 7
Mil dot is metric no Imperial units mannytx Tactical Scopes 16
opinions on Sightmark Triple Duty 4x16 mil dot CD82 Rifle Scopes 0
Burris Droptine with G2B mil-dot CD82 Rifle Scopes 0
ss 3-9x42 mildot group buy or quad mil djp0623 Rifle Scopes 3
mil reticules other than mil-dot space_weazel Tactical Scopes 8
need a mil-dot scope coronel Tactical Scopes 16


This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.