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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 06:46
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What does .1 mil mean compared to 1 MOA?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 07:48
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1 Mil is a distance whereas 1 MOA is an angle. For practical purposes at 100 yards a Mil is 3.6 inches and an MOA is 1.047 inches. So .1 Mil = .36 inches at 100 yards and there would be .291 Mils in one MOA. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 13:14
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No, both Mils and MOA are angles.  There are .291 Mils in one MOA not only at 100 yds, but at all ranges.  The numbers are correct though.  Assuming the OP is wanting to get a feel for how big .1 Mil clicks are, think of them as "about" 1/3 MOA (.344 to be exact).  About 1/2 way between 1/4 and 1/2 MOA clicks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 19:01
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Originally posted by Quoddy Quoddy wrote:

1 Mil is a distance whereas 1 MOA is an angle. For practical purposes at 100 yards a Mil is 3.6 inches and an MOA is 1.047 inches. So .1 Mil = .36 inches at 100 yards and there would be .291 Mils in one MOA. 

  That statement is not quite accurate...
 As Jon A. mentioned,  Mil. (abbreviation for Milliradian,), is also a unit of angular measurement, (as are Degrees and Minutes of Angle), not a measurement of distance, per se.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/15/2010 at 21:26
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http://www.mildot.com/  check this out
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 01:23
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Perhaps that confusion comes from the way they are typically defined.

Degrees minutes seconds is defined strictly in fractions of angle.  360 degrees in a full rotation, each degree into 60 minutes, each minute into 60 seconds.

Whereas a milliradian is usually defined something like the most acute angle in a right triangle whose right angle sides are in the proportion 1/1000, or less precisely as the angle described by the two ends of a unit of length viewed from a distance of 1000 of those units.  All the operatives are lengths even though the final result is an angle.

At least we aren't dealing with the editor who mangled the book I'm reading right now.  He edited most of the angles expressed in x' y" into  x feet and y inches of angle.  How does someone like that get a job as a final editor?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 01:32
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The long and short of it is that .1 mil is about a third of an inch at 100 yds.  From there you can get more technical ---   1 mil is 3.6 inches at 100 yds so .1 mil is .36 inches at 100 yds.
As noted milradian and minute of angle are mesurments of an angle that has a starting point at your eye and the two lines diverge growing furthere away from each other as they get farther away from you.  Like a piece of pie.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 08:09
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

The long and short of it is that .1 mil is about a third of an inch at 100 yds.  From there you can get more technical ---   1 mil is 3.6 inches at 100 yds so .1 mil is .36 inches at 100 yds.
As noted milradian and minute of angle are mesurments of an angle that has a starting point at your eye and the two lines diverge growing furthere away from each other as they get farther away from you.  Like a piece of pie.

Okay, thats a little easier.  So... if I have a scope with 1/4 MOA.... with my scope sighted in at 100 yds. To hit dead on at say...250yds, I would raise the elevation... 10 clicks?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 09:25
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10 clicks would be 2.5 moa , so if your rifle has that drop in 250 yards the answer is yes. the scope doesn't know what kind of rifle you have, you have to tell it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 09:28
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Originally posted by ceejayex ceejayex wrote:

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

The long and short of it is that .1 mil is about a third of an inch at 100 yds.  From there you can get more technical ---   1 mil is 3.6 inches at 100 yds so .1 mil is .36 inches at 100 yds.
As noted milradian and minute of angle are mesurments of an angle that has a starting point at your eye and the two lines diverge growing furthere away from each other as they get farther away from you.  Like a piece of pie.

Okay, thats a little easier.  So... if I have a scope with 1/4 MOA.... with my scope sighted in at 100 yds. To hit dead on at say...250yds, I would raise the elevation... 10 clicks?


To answer that accurately, you need MUCH more information!  You are free to generalize, but actual results may vary.  For a .308 at 2650FPS, 175-gr projectile, at sea level, 70 degrees ambient temp, yea, about 10 clicks, plus or minus a click or 2.  The exact dope is rifle/scope specific, there is no "right" answer other than the one that your rifle/scope give.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 09:54
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

10 clicks would be 2.5 moa , so if your rifle has that drop in 250 yards the answer is yes. the scope doesn't know what kind of rifle you have, you have to tell it.


Dear Scope,

I have a Remington LTR in .308. Please take this into account when aiming at the target for me. Big Smile

Sorry, but that was kind of a vague answer for someone new to ballistics. ceejayex, you would need to know what the actual drop is for 250 yards, either through actual shooting or by using a ballistics calculator. If you were to convert that drop (in inches) to MOA, keep in mind that because it is a measurement of angle, the farther out you go, the more inches 1 MOA covers. So if I had a 10" drop @ 250 yards, it would be 3.82 MOA: 10 / (1.047 * 250 / 100). 1 MOA @ 200 yards = 2.094" and @ 250 yards = 2.6175".

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that angular measurements such as mils or MOA really are most useful when you have a matching reticle. Otherwise, they bear little practical relation to shooting and are mostly a pain in the butt. However, if you have a reticle, such as a mil-dot, that has ticks indicating 1/10 mils (and sometimes finer subtensions), you can use that reticle along with mil turrets to make shot corrections using just the angular measurements.

For example, if I see that I need to correct 1.7 mils up and .6 mils right, I can either use the reticle gradations to do that or dial in those corrections - without having to make any calculations or conversions. I also never have to think in inches, yards, or meters.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 11:45
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Yes, but considering I know the ballistics of the bullet that I'm shooting,  I can just use the "clicks" to adjust  i.e.  3in drop at 200yds would indicate 12 clicks up?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 13:05
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CJ at 200 yards, you 1/4" movement per click at 100 yards become 1/2" movement per click at 200 yards.  To move 3" at 200 yards would be 6 "clicks".  As your range increases, take the movement of 1 click at 100 yards x the number of yards per/100. 
IE 
1/4" at 100 yards
1/2" at 200 yards
3/4" at 300 yards
1" at 400 yards
etc
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 13:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 13:45
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As has been mentioned by several posters, these are measurements of angle. Think of it this way: each click increases the angle, not some fixed measurement of distance.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 14:39
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even though radian and moa are angular measure , its faster to think of angular measure drop at the target, in the 308 example above , 500 yds would be about 3 mils or about 10 moa, it really doesn't matter whether the scope system is mixed or not, just dial in ( tell the scope what your doing) using the system thats there. even in a mixed system there really isn't any need to use any conversion from one to the other, so instead of your target being so and so yards out its, so and so moa or mils out.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 15:38
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At this point guys, I am feeling incredibly DENSE in the freaking head.  I was thinking of changing over to the mil-dot system ( SS 10x42) , but I may just stick with a bdc system. Unless I can find a Mil-dot for Dummies somewhere!  I am a very visual person, so something I can see would help.  Thanks for all your replies!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 15:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 15:50
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Buy a mil dot master, easy as pie.

Whether you think in mils or MOA or clicks, it don't matter: you need to put rounds down range at known distance before you can "know" what adjustment is needed for your rifle and scope.  Programs like JBM can get you close, but nothing equals rounds on paper in the real world.  Anything less is a good guess - or maybe not so good.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 17:06
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 Mil dot master .com explains the system and sells a downloadable classroom.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 17:22
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Here's a diagram depicting the first shot and how to measure how far off you are in mils. You could dial in the correction (up 1.8 mils and left 2.3 mils) with mil turrets (and not have to do any conversion). Or you can use the reticle to compensate, as shown in the second figure.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 18:35
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Thanks, Jono!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: March/17/2010 at 21:30
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Now that I've been using mil dot scopes for a year now, I can say the Mildot Master is an excellent aid. The online tutorial on their web page is the whip.
Whether using a mi-dot reticle with moa or mil adjustments, that tool makes using the mil-dot scope easier.


Doug
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