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Mil Dot Subtensions past 100 yards

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2007 at 22:59
okeefe View Drop Down
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If I want to use the mildot to establish holdovers how would the subtension change past 100 yards? for example, if at 12X
and 100 yards the dots are spaced at 3.6" what would the spacing be at 200 yards, 300 yards etc.

Thanks
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/19/2007 at 23:28
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3.6 @ 100
7.2 @ 200
10.8 @ 300
14.4 @ 400
etc.

just add another 3.6 inches per every hundred yards.  The space grows proportionally to the range.

If I'm wrong guys, please remove.

-Levi
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/20/2007 at 09:28
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I figured it was more complicated then that. But if not I am good to go
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2007 at 08:56
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Levi got it right.

http://www.riflescopes.com/mildot1.asp  this page is a helpful reference, and a mil-dot master is a worthwhile tool.

 

MIl-dot to mil-dot    is  3.6 in at 100yds  and 36.inches at 1000 yds.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2007 at 09:38
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I would recomend you to calculate out how much to adjust the scope instead.

I have made up a small ballistic card that is attached to the gun, (some have it on the scope) with how many clicks i need for different distances and different windspeeds.

shot in at 100 meters, i need 4 clicks at 200 meters and 12 clicks at 300........and 48 at 600 meters.

Quite simple and shooting at live animals at long distances is rarely about speedshooting, you have the time to adjust the sigth.

 

The Mildots correpsponds poorly anyway to the different distances, if you not adjust the power of the scope.

And with using the turrets instead of the mildots, you wont have any problem to take long shots at 9x,17X or 23X or whatever that is in betwen.

 

I am using mildots for calculations, never for holdover.

 

Regards TEchnika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2007 at 10:01
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Technika, I will probably use the method you describe. I have already started a ballistic card. But I have converted to U.S. measurements. I know the metric system and
how to use it, however, I am just not comfortable estimating distance in metric. I remember growing up in grammar school how they told us that everyone would be
using the metric system in 10 years...that was 30 years ago. I don't think us Americans are ever going to make the switch.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/22/2007 at 11:20
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As technika has noted dial is best when using mil-dot systems,as far as metric system which is more accurate a wrench made to 1/128 tolerance, one made to .125 in or a wrench made to 3 mm tolerance?? preference of one system over another does nothing for the accuracy of the measurement.

Here is a source that will allow you to make cards for your pull ups, assuming several things are known. the biggest problem is that mil-dot is not in moa so the turret "clicks" require a conversion factor. If the reticle is in Moa and the clicks are moa  it converts directly.

 

www.eskimo.com 



Edited by Dale Clifford
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2007 at 11:11
AlanK View Drop Down
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Originally posted by okeefe okeefe wrote:

If I want to use the mildot to establish holdovers how would the subtension change past 100 yards? for example, if at 12X
and 100 yards the dots are spaced at 3.6" what would the spacing be at 200 yards, 300 yards etc.

Thanks

 

Another way to look at it ! 3.6 @ 100yds each extra 10yds gives you  0.36" extra

20x0.36" =7.2"  hold over @ 200yds  23.5x0.36" hold over 9.18" @ 235yds obviously on second focal plane it has to be on the mag that it's milling on!

But ! if you choose fist focal plane you can use what ever mag you like as the values always stay the same so no mistakes or errors . www.light-stream.co.uk check out the 4.5-14x44 FFP with LR Reticle.

 

All the best,

Alan

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2007 at 16:46
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It's really very very stupid to use mildot for imperial measurements.

 

The whole point with mildot is that it's one meter betwen the dots on 1 km.

10 cm betwen the dots on 100 meter (almost 4")

30 cm betwen the dots on 300 meter.

1 click on the military sights are 1 cm at hundred or 3 cm at 300 meters.

1 click on civilian  6-24 is 0,5 cm.

 

It's so easy to convert clicks to mils , or mils to clicks, and targets to mils etc.

 

Buying mildot is like driving a car on methalited spirits, it might work but it's no good.

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/23/2007 at 16:52
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Also check out www.mil-dot.com
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2007 at 08:09
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Agree it is easier to use in metric IF you are familiar with metric.  But trying to talk in metric when a person has no background is pointless.  20CM?  If you've only ever dealt in inches means nothing.  Same with temp - 15C??  Have no idea; oh, you mean 59F, yeah I better wear a jacket.

 

Only stupid if you've been schooled in metric.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2007 at 11:43
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It's not stupid to use imperial, and it's not stupid to use metric.

But it's stupid to mix imperial and metric, as in this case both the adjustments and the reticle is  metric there is really no reason to use anything else.

 

And it would be as stupid to use a Nightforce with imperial system in metric.

 

20 CM is aprrox 8" as 10 cm is 4".

Quite simple, and if you took 20 minutes and seriosly looked it over, i am convinced that you would have no problem to handle it.

 

 

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2007 at 13:03
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Not sure it's quite that easy when you don't use it frequently.  We have been metric in Canada for some years now & my kids are at ease with it because that's all they were taught in school.  They are however clueless when it comes to imperial measurements and fractions (this is how all our lumber is sold so can get pretty interesting).  Not a smart move on our part when our biggest trading partner was staying on imperial, and more difficult for the seniors (me included) who were not brought up on metric.

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2007 at 15:23
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But it's easy, buy imperial scopes if you wanna use imperial measurements.

Why buying metric scopes then?

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2007 at 15:33
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Hadn't thought of a mil-dot scope as a metric scope. 

 

Just know that a mil is 3.6" at 100yds.  Used for ranging on animals is not tough as long as you have an idea of the animals average size.  For example, on a deer size target we use an approximation of 18" for the chest size.  Using my dots I know if I bracket the animal within 5 dots it is approx 100 yds away.  If 10 dots then it's 50 yds, 2.5 dots = 200 yds.  Don't need to do any conversions involving metric 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2007 at 16:46
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I guess what I like about a totally metric scope would be if the turret adjustments were 1cm at 100m....this would be pretty close to 1/3 moa and would result in a scope that is a little more coarse than 1/4 moa adjustments (which I don't like) and a 1/2 moa adjustments (I prefer this but sometimes it would be nice to be a little more fine than 1/2 moa....maybe I'm just dreaming.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2007 at 22:49
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Well I bought a metric scope because I really liked the Zeiss glass. the clicks actually work out to approx 1/5 MOA (.018") But the bottom line is that if you are not used
to viewing/estimating things in metric it just doesn't seem natural. Even sight in targets are in 1 inch grids. I don't ever recall seeing a metric version. I am an Engineer
by profession and am familiar with the metric system, and use it. And admit it is more pratical and easier to understand system of measure. Interestingly it still has not
taken hold in the U.S.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/24/2007 at 23:50
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Again it's like running a combusting engine on meth instead of gas, it works but not to it's full potential.

 

When it comes to sight in targets, I don't use them.

A scope with the magnification as the 6-24 and the resolution don't need such stuff.

It's far easyer to sight in on  a white patch on a white target.

That way there is no problem to see every single hole, or when holes get's bigger...

With lower magnification i use a black patch (3/4"x3/4") on a white target, but never any grid as it's sometimes difficult to see the bulletholes when they hit the grid...

 

Regards Technika

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/25/2007 at 06:58
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Good info.  As far as why it has never taken off here....a couple days at the SHOTShow are an eye-opener to the status of the firearms industry...going between trying completely new designs (some of questionable value) to OPS-Normal/Widget Factory/keep cranking it out until we have a warehouse full that no one wants to buy.  When you approach manufacturers (and I'm talking about everything...firearms, optics, etc) with an idea....the standard answer is "if we get enough demand....we might look at doing that someday...."   BS, if it's they get the demand/interest from the right person or agency (in which case they fall all over themselves like bar girls when the fleet comes in).   Another good idea which inexplicably never catches on are FFP scopes (especially for mildots and ballistic reticles)....but everybody here has been making SFP for eons so FFP remains a specialty thing beyond most people's budgets (due to the high-end companies who make them.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2007 at 10:53
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Originally posted by sandsock sandsock wrote:

Good info.  As far as why it has never taken off here....a couple days at the SHOTShow are an eye-opener to the status of the firearms industry...going between trying completely new designs (some of questionable value) to OPS-Normal/Widget Factory/keep cranking it out until we have a warehouse full that no one wants to buy.  When you approach manufacturers (and I'm talking about everything...firearms, optics, etc) with an idea....the standard answer is "if we get enough demand....we might look at doing that someday...."   BS, if it's they get the demand/interest from the right person or agency (in which case they fall all over themselves like bar girls when the fleet comes in).   Another good idea which inexplicably never catches on are FFP scopes (especially for mildots and ballistic reticles)....but everybody here has been making SFP for eons so FFP remains a specialty thing beyond most people's budgets (due to the high-end companies who make them.

 

What About Light stream First focal plain scope 4.5-14X44 with extended holdover section 5 dots 6 spaces £389.00 in the UK    www.light-stream.co.uk

 

Alan.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: April/26/2007 at 19:36
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What's the exchange rate?.would that be about $750 US?...I started gettin confused when they introduced the Euro....all I know is when I was deployed and couldn't find any sugar for entertaining our coalition partners....I had to buy a kilo of german beet sugar at the IT PX for about $4 US.....most expensive sugar I've ever bought....by affordable....I'd be talking something along the lines of a Nikon Monarch or Bushy 4200....it was nice to be able to buy habanos and 25 cent double espressos.
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