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meopta vs ziess??

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pyro6999 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2008 at 12:19
look at this

2008 Riflescope Rating Scale

 

10 - Swarovski Z6, Zeiss Victory

9 - Kahles C - CL & CSX, Schmidt & Bender

8 - Kahles KX, U.S. Optics, Swarovski PH & American, X.O.T.I.C.,  Zeiss Classic

7 - Bushnell Elite 6500, Leupold VX-7, Nightforce, IOR Valdada

6 - Bushnell Elite 4200, Nikon Monarch & Monarch X, Zeiss Conquest

5 - Leupold Mark 4 VX III & VX-L, Nikon Monarch Gold & Titanium, Sightron SIII

4 - Burris Black Diamond Signature Select XTR & Euro Diamond, Meopta, Pentax Lightseeker, Super Sniper, Trijicon Accupoint, Weaver Grand Slam

3 - Bushnell Elite 3200, Leatherwood, Leupold VX-II, Millet, Nikon Buckmaster, Sightron SI & SII, Vortex

2 -  Burris Fullfield II & Timberline, Leupold Rifleman & VX-I, Mueller, Nikon ProStaff, Simmons, Swift

1 - Barska, BSA, Tasco

0 - ATN, Leapers, NcStar


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2008 at 12:27
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Some people want really nice glass Squeeze even though you don't think it is necessary. 

I would save up a little more and get a Swaro z6 1.7-10x42 if it were me.  You are already almost there, might as well get the best since your spending that much anyway.  
............I know that! But you know as well as I, that as the price goes up, the optical quality doesn`t increase at the same percentage or rate. The ratio of additional benefits in optical quality gained vs the increase in price, is mimimal.
 
It also boils down to the individual`s eye balls. I have read some reviews where some do say that their VX3`s were as good as their Conquests and even their Swaros! On the flip side, I`ve read the opposite too...........Go figure!
 
If someone feels that they need a $1500- $2000 scope and deem it necessary,,,, then go for it!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2008 at 12:32
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

The Victory is better optically than the Swaro American. But is it that much better to justify an additional $700?? A 44% increase? Are the Victory`s optics 44% better than the Swaro`s?.....Nope!...........As with all high end scopes, the percentage of price increase is well and far above any percentage of optical improvement.


is a vx3 worth 50% more than a 4200 elite??

for that matter is the vx3 worth 150% more than a team primos?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2008 at 12:46
Duh!.............Like I stated, if someone wants a $1500-$2000 scope,,,,then go for it!.........No! The VX3 is not woth 50% more than the Elite 4200 and is not worth 150% more than the Primos!
 
But in this case, the 50% or 150% of the lower priced scope differences of which you refer to, IS still a smaller overall dollar number than the $700 difference between the Swaro American and the Victory...........If the eye balls can justify the additional $700, then by ALL MEANS,,,,do it!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2008 at 13:12
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

LMAO
...........Like that?Laugh....Or like this?Roll on Floor Laughing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2008 at 13:22
Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Some people want really nice glass Squeeze even though you don't think it is necessary. 

I would save up a little more and get a Swaro z6 1.7-10x42 if it were me.  You are already almost there, might as well get the best since your spending that much anyway.  
............I know that! But you know as well as I, that as the price goes up, the optical quality doesn`t increase at the same percentage or rate. The ratio of additional benefits in optical quality gained vs the increase in price, is mimimal.
 
It also boils down to the individual`s eye balls. I have read some reviews where some do say that their VX3`s were as good as their Conquests and even their Swaros! On the flip side, I`ve read the opposite too...........Go figure!
 
If someone feels that they need a $1500- $2000 scope and deem it necessary,,,, then go for it!!!


Squeeze that is the case with every thing.  Some people want the better product and that is just fine.  You don't, so leave it at that, quit trying to talk him into something cheaper than what he wants.  He obviously knows what a nice scope is and wants a nice one and has the money for it.  So why not get it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2008 at 13:26
i think i will agree with you supertool, i think its awesome that this young man has saved his sheckles and wants to buy a very nice scope for himself, thats awesome, he is talking about buying something at 14 that i at 28 cant even fathom thats awesome! 
They call me "Boots"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tip69 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2008 at 14:07
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

thats my thoughts, buy the best you can afford
you only need to save another $400 for a z-6
 
did you freaks not see my post.......... he's already there for the Zeiss and only $99.95 for the Z6!!!
 
9193 Swarovski 1.7-10x42 Z6 59214, Matte finish, 7A reticle, 30mm tube, fast focus eye piece, reseatable windage and elevation, likew new condition $1,965.00 $1,499.95
7257 Zeiss 2.5-10x42 Diavari VM/V 5216719908, Matte finish, #8 reticle, 30mm tube, fast focus eye piece, light ring marks, rub mark on occular end, factory certified refurbished, lifetime transferable warranty. $1,703.00 $1,199.95
take em!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2008 at 14:13
yeah, but we were talking brand new, i realize that the sample list stuff is good to go, but does the swaro get the lifetime warranty?? not an issue with the zeiss!
They call me "Boots"
375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Squeeze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/22/2008 at 19:55
Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Originally posted by Big Squeeze Big Squeeze wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

Some people want really nice glass Squeeze even though you don't think it is necessary. 

I would save up a little more and get a Swaro z6 1.7-10x42 if it were me.  You are already almost there, might as well get the best since your spending that much anyway.  
............I know that! But you know as well as I, that as the price goes up, the optical quality doesn`t increase at the same percentage or rate. The ratio of additional benefits in optical quality gained vs the increase in price, is mimimal.
 
It also boils down to the individual`s eye balls. I have read some reviews where some do say that their VX3`s were as good as their Conquests and even their Swaros! On the flip side, I`ve read the opposite too...........Go figure!
 
If someone feels that they need a $1500- $2000 scope and deem it necessary,,,, then go for it!!!


Squeeze that is the case with every thing.  Some people want the better product and that is just fine.  You don't, so leave it at that, quit trying to talk him into something cheaper than what he wants.  He obviously knows what a nice scope is and wants a nice one and has the money for it.  So why not get it.
............You`re not telling me anything I don`t already know. Not trying to talk anybody out of anything!!! Just giving another opinion or option! He`s a big boy at 14 and very capable of making any scope decision. People post here asking for opinions based on our hunting and range experiences. Whether it seems like I`m talking anyone out of anything or not, I`m not going to stifle myself in lieu of expression.
 
On the other hand and what nobody else has apparently thought of is, that maybe he plans to reload in the future. Maybe at 14, he does not have any reloading equipment at this time. That difference of $700 or $800, can fully buy and set up some real good reloading equipment along with bullets, powder, primers, casings, and just maybe have enough left over to throw in the material to buy or build a reloading bench too!
 
However, if he wants to spend $1400 or $4,000 just on a scope, that is certainly his choice to do so and more power to him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed Connelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 09:16
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 09:29
BIg Squeeze you're right on the money.  THe law of dimishing returns affects optics as much as anything IMO.  I've always said the difference between and $500 scope and a $1000 scope is not very much according to the scopes I've purchased.  For a young man he'd probably be much better off buying a $500 scope and putting the rest some where else like you suggested.  From what I've gathered with the few high dollar scopes I've owned you really gain more braggin rights that anything else.  Are they better yes. But only slightly.  And if you're like me and have MANY rifles to scope I'd rather have 2 $500 scopes than 1 $1000 scope every time.  And those $500 scopes haven't given me any grief yet even the ones I compete with.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 09:41
quantity over quality huh? thats your call i guess. i suppose your gonna tell me that a remington 710 is a better rifle than an remington 40x is too?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 09:47
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

quantity over quality huh? thats your call i guess. i suppose your gonna tell me that a remington 710 is a better rifle than an remington 40x is too?
 
What a surprise, you disagree!  I'm not saying that should be everyone's choice, but that's how I see it after 25 years of shooting.  At this point I'd much rather get a scope that is perfectly acceptable and put the extra $500 into an upgraded rifle.  I could afford any $2000 scope I want so I don't subrscribe to the "buy as good of optics and you can afford" because I would never pay that much for a scope.  I don't mind if others do but I've bought some scopes over $1000 and didn't feel like it was money well spent.  To each their own.  By the way I did feel differently about this when I was 28 but I've changed my priorities as I'v matured.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 09:51
so what are you saying? that because im younger than you that i dont know anything about scopes guns and hunting?? im wise well beyond my age sir, im not a newbie.
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375H&H Mag: Yeah, it kills stuff "extra dead"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Horsemany Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 09:57
Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

so what are you saying? that because im younger than you that i dont know anything about scopes guns and hunting?? im wise well beyond my age sir, im not a newbie.
 
Absolutely not.  I'm saying that I personally used to love to brag about having the best optics.  I eventually realized less expensive scopes were perfectly adequate and I no longer aspire to own the best optics available.  In the case of a $2000 scope I'd MUCH rather buy a $700 scope and put it on a $1300 Cooper.  That's a very easy choice for me and I really question the "buy as good of glass as possible" way of thinking.  It's the way I thought when I was younger and buying scopes for bragging rights.  Let's not forget the terrible exchange rate right now with Europe giving us even less for our dollar.
 
I'd trust a $600 scope on any hunt anywhere in the world too.


Edited by Horsemany - December/23/2008 at 09:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 10:06
your rifle is only as good as the scope on top of it and the finger pulling the trigger, my thoughts are if you take all the possible mechanical issue out of the equation and leave the rest up to you thats the way to go. that way you know it was your fault if you missed, not the rifles not the scopes just you and you alone. i dont understand the whole "bragging rights" thing either, its only a bragging thing if you make it one, just because you demand good equipment doesnt mean your rubbing it in everybody's face, just means you want top self equipment, which i dont see a problem with. everybody i hunt with uses old ass bushnell banners 3x9's and straight 4x's do you think they really care when i show up with a zeiss conquest or a 4200 or a monarch? hell no, he buys what he likes and we buy what we like no issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pyro6999 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 10:23
Boozeris more like it

Grenade maybe that would be a better choice for me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote supertool73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December/23/2008 at 10:23
Its got nothing to do with bragging.  It is about being able to see your game better in low light times when most of the animals happen to be out and about.  There is a huge difference between a $800 to $1000 scope and a $300 to $500 scope.  I think diminishing returns most start to show them selves once you get beyond $800 to $1000.  Low light is where these more expensive optics really shine.  I can see things with my IOR and Meopta optics that I cannot even make out with my 4200 optics and my lower line Meopta scope. 

When I was taking a precision rifle class this last summer we had a night shoot one night.  The guys using the Leupold MK4 scopes had a very very hard time even being able to find the targets in the dark.  Those of us with IOR (just me) and Nightforce scopes were able to find targets and shoot with no problems what so ever.  So don't try and tell me that a cheap scope is almost as good.  It just don't fly. 

And for the record your comment saying "what a surprise you disagree to Pyro.  You should be saying that smart comment to yourself.  That is all you've done since you got active on this forum over the last couple weeks.  Nothing wrong with disagreeing other than you seem to like to try and point it out in others as something bad when you are pretty good at it yourself.
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