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M855A1 ammo

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2012 at 00:56
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Has anyone gotten their hands on any of the "new" 62gr. M855A1 ammo?

Have you heard anything about the powder they are using? It's supposed to deliver increased muzzle velocity without increased pressure and is said to be very temp. stable.
The powder sounds kind of like AR-Comp, but everything seems hush- hush about it.

Speaking of current ammo... just picked up a bunch of LC 12 cases at the range (thank you) and it was all staked primer- the first I'd seen. Decapped and de-crimped just fine... haven't made any other comparisons, though.
Would've picked up a bunch more, but some other wild- eyed knucklehead showed up and started policing it up, too.

Went to a different range earlier this week and they made me stop picking up cases that weren't mine.
The shooters had left the scene and left their brass. It turns out that the range is now picking up and selling used brass at $24/100 and has restricted us from picking it up. They used to just sell it for scrap.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2012 at 13:38
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I have heard that the powder is CFE 223 which is suppossed to be equivalent of SMP-842, which is what the Army Times said was in the M855A1 ammo, but this may all be internet rumors.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2012 at 14:56
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SMP-842.  The surplus lots apparently show up with CFE-223 data in/with them.  Powder's been around since no more recently than the late '90s, according to a General Dynamics (that's who owns the St. Marks, FL, facility and manufactures the powder) presentation on the web.  Gotta love marketing. ;)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2012 at 18:10
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Thanks-
I'd heard the powder was made @St. Marks, which would rule out AR- Comp.
CFE223 has only shown up in the marketplace within the past year, afaik.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/12/2012 at 20:41
MZ5 View Drop Down
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Yes, CFE223 hs only been around for about that long for handloaders, but the powder was developed by General Dynamics and/or the military years ago.

You're right that it's different from AR Comp, though. that's a Eurenco stick powder.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 09:45
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Searching around shows a consensus view that CFE223 data is a bit warm with SMP-842 and folks are starting lower... doesn't matter much since no one seems to have any milsurp SMP842 in stock.

Speaking of Eurenco... it is a perpetual aggravation that they can't seem to keep the US market supplied with excellent Norma powders. I've been using Norma for over 30 yrs and it's always a great big hassle to find anything.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 12:30
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Well, since canister-grade powders are generally held to tighter tolerances than bulk powders, I would expect results to vary.
Eurenco is the name the French Ministry of Defense conducts some of their business as, so I bet their priorities aren't us.  :)
 
I don't believe it's been all that long since they bought Norma, Viht, P.B. Clermont, etc, but I don't recall for sure any more.  Do you?  Either way, it is certainly frustrating.  Funny how we in the USA can apparently buy rifle powder from exactly 3 outfits: General Dynamics, Rheinmetall (Re-17 only, AFAIK), or the Gov't of France (Eurenco, and a significant/controlling interest in Thales).  Gotta find surplus for anything else.  We're well-covered for powder selection, but it seems a little risky from the perspective of sourcing components if friends decide to not be quite so friendly one day...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 14:34
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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News last month that the French were shopping Vihtavuori around and may have a Finn buyer.
Scot may still own some mfg. facilities which haven't burned down, but all remaining Scot flavors are labeled Accurate. Even lowly Rex powder is owned by the Germans. I'm not sure where Western Powders fits into all of this, other than being resellers without mfg. facilities.
I've heard that some powders have even been sourced from China in order to fill production voids by some or all of the players.
Who knows what it will all look like next year- those big boys sure do like to call each other up and play 'let's make a deal'.

I'm hoping the astute French will soon straighten out Norma/Bofors shipping... I'm down to my last 2 pounds of N201.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/13/2012 at 22:19
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I'm no expert on the rounds, all I know is that is all we have over here right now, the old m855 has become back up ammo. I understand there are questions about the move to the ammo, as far as price and if it actually does what it says. But all I know is it knocks 'em down, and that's all we really care about right now. I personally wouldn't like the ammo with my personal rifle, from all the accounts that are coming out now it decreases your barrel life considerably, but for what it's doing over here, it's worth it. I have engaged targets out to 850 meters, and been pleased with the results, it seems pretty accurate. so yeah, just some useless insight I thought I throw in the pot.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2012 at 07:38
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Many thanks Savage11B

Sounds like they got right what they needed to get right.
We'll see how long it takes 'em to figure out the barrel wear.
Are you keepin' an eye on them tricky dadburn 11Cs?



Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2012 at 10:18
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yeah, pretty much, can you find it on the civilian market anywhere? I haven't really looked for it specifically but curious..

haha yeah, I have 2 in my team, tough to keep in line sometimes, but knock 'em over the head a couple times and they figure it out. just don't tell them to say cheese for a picture or they get all excited..
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2012 at 15:00
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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ammo not available... some has filtered in to sites like AR15.com for tests.
Powder shows up intermittently, but so far only bullets I've heard about have been random within bulk lots of standard M855 pull downs.
Just regular ammo like M109 and M855 has gotten scarce and pricey, but may be coming back down again from peak.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/14/2012 at 19:38
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Thanks for the info, Savage11B!

Alan, I'm not terribly familiar with how completely the Alliant and Bofors labels cross over. Can you not find the powder(s) you're looking for with the Alliant name on them?

Interesting to hear about France shopping Viht around...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/15/2012 at 14:46
Alan Robertson View Drop Down
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Originally posted by MZ5 MZ5 wrote:

Thanks for the info, Savage11B!

Alan, I'm not terribly familiar with how completely the Alliant and Bofors labels cross over. Can you not find the powder(s) you're looking for with the Alliant name on them?

Interesting to hear about France shopping Viht around...
Alliant Reloder 10 is about same burn rate as Norma N-201, which is a double- base extruded, gives very consistent results and is near VV n130, WW748 and 322 burn rate.
Reloder 15 is very close to Norma N-203, and Norma MRP is very close to Re22.
Some have suggested that Alliant powders are Norma floor sweepings,  but far be it for me to say something like that.

re: Eurenco selling Vihtavuori-

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=30491841

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2012/06/eurenco-to-sell-vihtavuori-plant-but-production-should-continue/


"Thanks for the info, Savage11B!" (worth repeating)
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