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M-14 vs M-16 Video

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2007 at 18:42
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2007 at 19:41
tahqua View Drop Down
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Well, Mark, I certainly believe that black rules and walnut drools.
But in regards to present thinking, some critics believe that Stoner's direct impingement was and is a liability. Witness the HK 416. I have news for all the "HK is GOD" freaks. The HK G3/91 is recoil operated and vents gases into the chamber to facilitate extraction of spent casings. If anyone has any questions about this I can send you a spent casing to show the burn marks from the fluting. Now HK comes along and says this is a bad idea with the M16, go figure.
I own HK rifles and pistols and respect their quality very much. I will stick with my dirty, filthy AR.
Sorry for the rant from a Gene Stoner fan. He can be mentioned in the same company as Kalashnikov and Browning.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2007 at 20:56
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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couldn't get thru it-dumbest movie on guns I've seen-- doing that to get even aren't you ct.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2007 at 21:52
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I know a lot of people get sensitive when it comes to the M14/16 issue. I have never had a M14/1A. I stuck with my M1 for service rifle until the bitter end. After switching to the AR I never really looked back.
Oh yeah, I even shot my HK91 at a non-sanctioned service rifle match. This was before the AR took off and it sure turned heads. Which brings me back to walnut, my Garand will see some matches this year and I am looking forward to it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2007 at 21:54
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i still like the m25 whitefeather
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/01/2007 at 22:27
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
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16 was never initiated as an assault, started out as a contract by the air force as a "guard carbine" 14s were to heavy and too big a bullet to shoot around airplanes. Ar 180 lost out to stoner simply on cost of production, whicch was about 1/5 of the 14's at that time. size and degree of training of personnel were main considerations. then politics got involved same as t-58 (fn-fal) and 14s. result remarkable select fire prarie dog gun complete with carrying handle.ar won again when use made at home became a cry and the Daewoo lost out against major bids going to fn, if they built in the us of course. both daewoo and 180 better guns. will be interesting to see the direction taken in the future now that robinson lost out in a repeat of history.

got an xcr on order from robinson should be here middle of next month anxious to see what the noise is.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2007 at 03:42
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Originally posted by Dale Clifford Dale Clifford wrote:

couldn't get thru it-dumbest movie on guns I've seen-- doing that to get even aren't you ct.

 

Negative!

I just ran across it and thought it would be a good "conversation starter". 

 

I actually like both weapon platforms.

 

The shooter in this vid is Ken Elmore of SAW.

http://www.specializedarmament.com/pages/about_us.html

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/02/2007 at 10:10
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it worked-wonder by they didn't use a kevlar helmet.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/04/2007 at 16:23
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tah which Garand, IH,win,H&R,SA????? pictures-------
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/24/2007 at 13:08
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Sorry Dale, I didn't catch this one.

Winchester with a Springfield op rod. The side kick is all Colt, 1944. I can't remember when I bought either , but it's been at least 20+ years and the DCM did me real good on the Garand.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: June/25/2007 at 04:07
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Nice weapons, Doug.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2007 at 13:05
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I don't own any "assault weapons" of any design so; I don't have a "dog in this fight" as the saying goes. However, I did have a couple of questions/comments about the "logic" used in the video:

  • Although I can (at least in theory) understand why the M14 was unable to maintain multiple shots on target at full auto, why was the first round not hitting?  It would have none of the negative effects of repeated recoil affecting it.  Seems to me that they had a poor marksman to begin with - which might explain some of the "failures."
  • Stoner "through away the heavy 7.62 mm cartridge and replaced it with a slim line 5.56mm cartridge." This may be true but, what has been the effect of terminal ballistics?  I seem to recall reading some negative reviews of the .223's man-stopping performance. The video tries to dispel this but nevertheless, the military has been looking at replacing it with a heavier projectile for some time now. I'm not saying I'd like to be shot with a .223 but, you can't get around the fact that it often takes too many hits with it to put a determined enemy combatant down.
  • It's interesting to me that the film squarely blames the soldier for the poor reliability of the M16. Yet the  M14, in the hands of those same soldiers, did not exhibit the same tendancy toward jamming.  Indeed the fact that the military had to revamp their cleaning regimen and issue newer/better cleaning kits speaks volumes as such things had been unnecessary up until the emergence of the M16.
  • Their "expert" stated he preferred the M16 over any other weapon hands down.  Does this alone not bely a level of bias that makes his personal "results" a bit less than scientific?

Now anyone of you that have read my posts in the past will  know that I'm a high-velocity, light-for-caliber proponent.  I regularly shoot 130 - 140 gr 6.5mm bullets and 120 - 140 gr. 7mm bullets at big-bodied elk and mule deer with great results.  I've never liked 30 cal. rounds at all.  However, the comparisons and conclusions made in the video were at best fairly poorly put together arguments that were clearly biased in their presentation.  Someone was interested in promoting an agenda, rather than making a valid comparison.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2007 at 13:24
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i too like to use 120 gr 6.5mm and 140 gr 7mm bullets but i on the  other hand am a huge fan of the .308's i dont think it matters what weight or what gun you shoot shot placement is the key, my 30 cal just kills stuff extra dead thats all.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/04/2007 at 14:37
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select fire weapons have two sears, the first as you suggest, is the primary and released by the person, and the second is "timed" by the closing of the bolt, generally off of the bolt carrier. anyone who has shot a m14 on full as say a FN heavy barrel squad will quickly point out the front end light, and general slop in the m14- which makes it rattle on full. the guy couldn't hit anything, because he knew everything was going to go to sh*t after the first round.

 

the orginial round was the 222 mag which was later replaced by the .223. and the twist rate was set at 1.14 to cause the bullets to tumble and wound, thus the necessity of 2 men to take the wounded away. nothing was every said about stopping power.

 

the jamming was due to the use of calcium carbonate as a flash supressant, which would cause incredible salt build up in humid weather.

 

when involved with these types of guns (and I've got a bunch) everyone develops there preferences and it don't mean squat.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2007 at 15:38
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Hey Tahqua....Clean out your PM box, Bro.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/21/2007 at 15:41
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Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

Hey Tahqua....Clean out your PM box, Bro.

 

please do i couldnt even send you a reply back this morning hey cheap sound familar to you??

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