New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - LR Confirmation to 1K and my favorite reticle
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Check GunBroker.com for SWFA's No Reserve and No Minimum bid firearm auctions.

LR Confirmation to 1K and my favorite reticle

 Post Reply Post Reply   Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 15:17
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/26/2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 659
Video links are at the bottom of the post. 
No editing whatsoever has been done.

Over time I have evolved in my preference in scope reticles.
Even at that, I am talking about in this thread my favorite reticle for field shooting, tactical matches, and hunting.
If it is bench shooting and or pd's, then I have some different preferences (not going to mention that preference in this thread).
I went outside and took a quick pic.
Finally this reticle is available. 
I have been pushing optic companies for about a 7 years to do something like this and now it is available, or within the month or less it will be available in 3 different brands of scopes (Leupold VX-3's and Mark 4, and NF NXS 3.5-15 in FFP only). 
At the beginning it is only available with the S&B 4-16 PM II, but it will also be available in the 5-25 PM II (and I think the 3-12) as well in less than a month.
FYI- Holland's already has an all MIL reticle in the three brands of scopes mentioned.
Here is a pic of the Holland ART (Advanced Reticle Technology) MOA reticle:


There is a number of MOA reticles on the market in both second focal plane and first focal plane.
But with the exception of one company that I know of (Vortex, and maybe one more, but it only lists it every 10 MOA) all of them just have lines, dashes or dots (The MOA is NOT internally listed).
Most of the Ballistic reticle are the same, just lines.
I have watched a good number of shooters/hunters have missed their target or game because they lost count of the line/dot/dash and put it one the wrong one.
For guys that always use the main cross-hair, I have seen rotational errors or non-rotational errors (Forgot to turn the turrets).
Here is some reasons I really like this system best.
This particular scope is in First Focal Plane (FFP). 
I don't have to worry about turning the scope up or having it at the right magnification for the reticle to  have the proper subtension.
With a confirmed drop chart, all you have to do is shoot by the numbers.  No more guess work or holdovers.
There is a line every 1.5 Minute-of-Angle (MOA), and the MOA is listed (etched glass reticle) every three MOA.  All the way to 30 MOA. 
You will notice that on each side of the vertical cross-hair the horizontal lines are different lengths. 
The short ones are 2 MOA, and the long ones are 4 MOA with a line to show where 2 MOA is.  Very rarely would you ever have to hold more than 4 MOA for wind (I have dialed a lot more than that before, but not the norm).
There are three ways you can use this reticle:

1st, simply use the reticle, and never touch a turret. 
This is super fast for a tactical match or even in hunting. 
If you know the distance and the wind, it is simply shooting by the numbers. 
Having that reticle on a animal is very easy to use and quick. 
No fiddling with your turrets wasting precious time and taking away your attention from the task at hand.
It is easy and quick to half 1.5 MOA, and even 1/4 it while looking through it.

2nd, reticle+dialing.
Here you will never dial more than 1.25 MOA.  In this case you have the time to be completely precise.
Lets say you need 11.0 MOA for the distance you are shooting.
The line between the 9 & 12 MOA lines is half way between the two or 1.5 MOA different (10.5 MOA!). 
You need 11.0 MOA, so you can just use your reticle, and separate it into 1/3's, and hold in the right place as mentioned in the first scenario.
Or you can hold on to the 10.5 MOA line and dial .5 MOA/1/2MOA or 2 clicks on most scope turrets. 
In this scenario, you are always have your target on a line with no hold-offs.


3rd, just dial and use the turrets like you would with a dot plex reticle.

WIND:
You can also hold off for the wind using the reticle or you can dial-Here again you have the ability to do it two different ways.

Another great thing about this reticle is the ability to make quick shot correction when needed from either the main crosshair or other parts of the reticle.
Let say you are shooting at a piece of steel of unknown size at 450 yards.  You did your best to dope the conditions but your shot was low and right.
With a Plex or dot reticle you don't have a way to accurately measure it, but with the ART Reticle, you can easily measure the correction you need to make for the next one to be a center hit.
Same with getting a gun zeroed, that has a new or different scope on it. 
Think of your reticle as a yardstick that you can put up on the target and get the correct measurement.
Your reticle is like a yardstick and will have on the bull in a couple of shots.

Another asset using this reticle is that you don't have to worry about variance in turrets adjustments, since you are using a fixed system.

Above the main cross-hair the vertical line goes into even finer adjustments (1 MOA).  Production will even have some finer enhancements.
This can be used for even finer corrections when using your scope to spot for someone else or making your own corrections.
It can also be used for reticle ranging.  The finer the measurement the more accurate you can be in reticle ranging.
This is the reticle I used for doing initial drop confirmation out to 1K last week.
I used the reticle/dial combo to be precise.  I didn't have my R/L (windage) turret zeroed and I was shooting to the right from the get go.
Also, I found out after the fact that my action screw was more loose than it should be.  I re-tightened it and reconfirmed my 100 yard zero.
Should I have checked those things before-hand? YES!  I make mistakes too like everyone else

Once I got to 1000 yards, I went back and then just ran the reticle from 200 yards out to 600 yards with no turrets whatsoever.
Here is the range with no zoom:

With zoom:

Specialty Pistol I was shooting:  6.5 Leopard (Pink Panther) Rem. XP-100 built by Mac's Gunworks, scope S&B PM II with ART Reticle from Holland's Shooting Supply.


I then write the correction on my drop chart after  I make the shot, then go home and adjust MV and sometimes BC (multiple BC's/ degrading BC's until my drop chart matches my actual drops.

If you want to see the actual shooting, then here is the YouTube links.
It is not entertaining, but what I actually did.
I was by myself, so at times I couldn't see where I missed since the recoils moves me off of the target. 
I could get back on the FOV to have a good idea most of the time though.  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4kxcdGNI50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAB-3X3THJY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JBX5x-pC-Y&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 16:11
trigger29 View Drop Down
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Optics Master Extraordinaire
Avatar
X = 180 Y = 90 (X+Pyro)+(Y-Pyro) = ?

Joined: September/29/2007
Location: South Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 4297
I agree on the numbers in the retical. I really like that one. That's one thing I like about the Rapid-Z reticles, is the numbers to mark yardage. In a low light, fairly long shot on a deer, I was glad the numbers were there, as it was much easier than counting lines in the dark.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 16:53
JF4545 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: March/31/2009
Location: Washington
Status: Offline
Points: 2753
I could see myself using a scope like that. Even though its very busy the lines are thin enough I can see right through them. The only problem I see is using it in low light, I do not think the lines are heavy enough, at least thats the way it appears. I agree with Jason though , I like the numbers as well, I had a Swaro with a Ballistic Reticle and sent it back because I doubt I could have used it when a quick shot was needed as I would be counting the lines instead of shooting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 17:04
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20475
http://swfa.com/Flatline-Ops-Levels-C3938.aspx

Is that what you have on the S&B? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 17:08
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/26/2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 659
Yes.
I just went outside and took a pic through it with my digital camera.
4-16 S&B PM II
Originally posted by cheaptrick cheaptrick wrote:

http://swfa.com/Flatline-Ops-Levels-C3938.aspx

Is that what you have on the S&B? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 17:11
cheaptrick View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar

Joined: September/27/2004
Location: South Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 20475
Very cool, Ernie. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 17:14
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/26/2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 659
I have used it on low light with no problems to date but everyone's eyes are different.

Originally posted by JF4545 JF4545 wrote:

I could see myself using a scope like that. Even though its very busy the lines are thin enough I can see right through them. The only problem I see is using it in low light, I do not think the lines are heavy enough, at least thats the way it appears. I agree with Jason though , I like the numbers as well, I had a Swaro with a Ballistic Reticle and sent it back because I doubt I could have used it when a quick shot was needed as I would be counting the lines instead of shooting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 17:36
JF4545 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: March/31/2009
Location: Washington
Status: Offline
Points: 2753
It works well in "Low Light" Thats good to know.. Seriously I would like a VX-3 with that reticle. I had a VX-3 for a short time, nice glass to me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 17:49
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/26/2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 659
I have a VX-3 LR/T 6.5-20 with the original ART reticle in it. I was using it last weekend at was making hits at 1125 yards with a AR-15 pistol, shooting 69 grain smackies.
Started with a non-designated Seekin's stripped lower, upper is from him also.  Timney trigger, Lothar Walther barrel, Mac Brake.



I put on a church steel shoot for my congregation this past Saturday, and was letting one of the ladies use it.  Her 270 Win rifle was down at the time.
I have a thread on the shoot with some video and pic here.

Originally posted by JF4545 JF4545 wrote:

It works well in "Low Light" Thats good to know.. Seriously I would like a VX-3 with that reticle. I had a VX-3 for a short time, nice glass to me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 18:08
JF4545 View Drop Down
Optics Master
Optics Master
Avatar

Joined: March/31/2009
Location: Washington
Status: Offline
Points: 2753
Some Nice loking Rigs there Ernie, Almost makes a guy wanna go to Church..Wink
What is the ART reticle, is that what this reticle is called?
Can we go buy a Leo Scope from SWFA and send it to Leupold for this reticle or
does one buy it directly from Leo???
Are these people really from your Church? 


Edited by JF4545 - August/25/2011 at 18:10
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 18:22
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13882
Let me guess ---  umm  "Branch Dividians"?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 18:23
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Resident Redneck

Joined: June/20/2005
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 13882
Great Pics Ernie I like your pistols.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/25/2011 at 18:42
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/26/2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 659
Yes, these are all church members where I preach.
Including me we had 18 out there this past Saturday.
Here is the link to where I posted it here on OT:
http://www.opticstalk.com/church-steel-shoot-200-yards1125-yards_topic30060.html

There are two ways to get a ART (Advanced Reticle Technology) reticle.
1st, if you have a second focal plane Leupold scope that is a VX-3/III, you can send it in to Holland's and have your current reticle changed out for an ART reticle.
Or, as mentioned you can buy a new scope with the cheapest reticle option, then send it to Holland's for the conversion
Holland's Shooting Supply: http://www.hollandguns.com/       Phone: 541.439.5155
You can click on: Advanced Reticle Technology/ART or scopes w/ART
Or you can buy a new NF, Leupold or S&B with a ART reticle in it from Holland's.
As mentioned there are several options with the ART-Check out the website.
IF someone wants one and is unsure how to go about, contact me and I would be glad to help you whether it is a new scope or having your current scope. 307-257-7431
All scopes do not lose their warranty if this is done.
If you already have a FFP scope you cannot have a ART in the NF, as it is-to difficult, but the SFP Leupold's-no problem.
I am not sure if S&B will do it with their FFP scopes-check with Darrell.


Originally posted by JF4545 JF4545 wrote:

Some Nice loking Rigs there Ernie, Almost makes a guy wanna go to Church..Wink
What is the ART reticle, is that what this reticle is called?
Can we go buy a Leo Scope from SWFA and send it to Leupold for this reticle or
does one buy it directly from Leo???
Are these people really from your Church? 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2011 at 08:49
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 18344
Great stuff, Ernie.  Who is that holding a weapon in his mouth????  I don't have much I would shoot that way.  
I really like that reticle concept... it is very near something I have requested in the past.  It got XXXed out of the requirements package.  


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/26/2011 at 21:50
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/26/2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 659
Thank you!

Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Great Pics Ernie I like your pistols.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2011 at 12:45
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/26/2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 659

The last video clip (4th one) is where I go back to 900 yards, and then I shoot from 200-600 with just using the reticle (no dialing whatsoever).
It is also the shortest video clip.



When folks mention a busy reticle from seeing a pic about it, sometimes we don't realize how easy and non-cluttered it really is.
One, it is different than the traditional plex, so it will feel cluttered compared to a plex reticle.
But it is so much more capable than a plex.
I have been using scopes with ART and own two scopes with ART (Both Leupold's) for a number of years.

For instance lets pretend you are shooting the Pink Panther (6.5 Leopard/WSM) with a 130 Berger @ 3050, at my atmospheric conditions.
You are going to be shooting at 600 yards. On a piece of steel that is 12x12 inches.
The way I use the reticle to be precise in this case would make the 9 MOA line (check pic above) my aiming point, and I would dial 1MOA up on my turret.
From the center of the steel target you have 6 inches in up/down right/left
At 600 yards, 1 MOA is approximately 6"
Since I am holding the 9MOA line on the center of the target I have the 7.5 MOA line above my target and the 10.5 MOA below my target.
Since each line is 1.5 MOA apart, then at 600 yards, the 7.5 MOA line and the 10.5 MOA line are not touching the target, but 3" above and below the target.
I have taken game at under 200 yards using this reticle and I never found it being an issue when hunting and shooting in the heat of the moment.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: August/27/2011 at 12:50
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/26/2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 659
I was trying to practice the K.I.S.S. principleKisswith the AR

Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Great stuff, Ernie.  Who is that holding a weapon in his mouth????  I don't have much I would shoot that way. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/08/2011 at 16:29
Kickboxer View Drop Down
MODERATOR
MODERATOR
Avatar
Moderator

Joined: February/13/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 18344
Someone told me once... "you have to make love to the rifle"  Guess it works for pistols, too...
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: September/08/2011 at 16:38
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
Optics Journeyman
Optics Journeyman
Avatar

Joined: January/26/2010
Location: Gillette, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 659
Big GrinBig GrinBandito
Good one!


Big Grin
Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:

Someone told me once... "you have to make love to the rifle"  Guess it works for pistols, too...
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Similar Threads: "LR Confirmation to 1K and my favorite reticle"
Subject Author Forum Replies Last Post
Sightron SIII 6x24x50 LR MOA-2 - reticle question Fat Dave Rifle Scopes 4
Mark 4 4.5-14.5 TMR reticle pic at 1K ccoker Tactical Scopes 1
Favorite Reticles Poll danjojoUSMC Rifle Scopes 29
List of FFP Mil-Dot Scopes MOA/MRAD Sub $1K Jettubby Rifle Scopes 4
What sub $1k FFP scope? Roadwild17 Tactical Scopes 13
Illuminated scopes under $1k Roadwild17 Tactical Scopes 2
Best scope under 1k..... cjhunts Rifle Scopes 21
Interesting dilemma: $1K budget??? ceylonc Tactical Scopes 3
Varmint-PD scope 1k-1.5k range signals678 Rifle Scopes 24
ffp ranging reticle good glass 1k < suggestions jvr Tactical Scopes 3


This page was generated in 0.160 seconds.