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Looking For A Scope

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2009 at 16:34
Pete E View Drop Down
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I've decided to give informal "long range" shooting shooting ago and I am looking for a suitable scope.

At present I have a mix of Swarovski, Zeiss, S&B hunting scopes on my rifles, but I'm in the process of getting a Sako rebarreled to .260Rem and this will need a new scope.

After a weekends introduction to long range shooting and looking at the limitations of my present optics, I would like a scope with the following specifications:

30mm tube
4-16 x50mm
Side parrallax adustable
First Focal Plane
Mil Dot reticule
1cm/100m

I would really like to stick with a Mil Dot reticule (or v similar) and 1cm/100m adjustments..There seems no point at all in going for a mil dot ret and then having turrets that adjust in 1/4MOA.

I've read a little about the Premier Herittage scope, but thats a little too rich for me plus way to heavy. Which ever of my rifles it goes on, it going to be also usd for deer stalking and th rifles are either sporter or medium weight ie no heavyweight tactical rigs...

I'm looking for optical quality at least comparable with what I already have...

I've looked at IOR, Night Force and Leupold and in general I am not really taken with their scopes..

Any other suggestions?

Regards,

Peter
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2009 at 16:58
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If the list is pretty set (as in nothing on the list can fall off), I'd recommend you bite the bullet and get an S&B or USO or Premier.

Zeiss and Swaro make hunting scopes with almost everything; and several companies make scopes with almost everything (but not that good'a glass.)

The tricky part is mil dot with FFP, that is a traditionally tactical combination - so those scopes sell to the tac market, where big and heavy ain't a problem.  Most hunters don't want FFP and mil dot, so hunting scopes get the 30mm tubes and the side parallax and the mil adjustments.

Why do you need mil dot?
Why do you need FFP?

Wiggle a little on those and you can get a damn fine optic, like a Zeiss Victory; no wiggle, plan on going the route of a tactical scope and beef up before season, so you can haul around a 7 pound rifle and its 4 pound scope.

To get all that and the optical quality you want, you might have to go to a tactical scope, which will be large and heavy.


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2009 at 17:12
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3302929001 New Zeiss 4-16x56 Tactical Hensoldt Telescopic 34mm Sight                                                               New Zeiss 4-16x56 Tactical Hensoldt Telescopic 34mm Sight
  • Matte
  • First Focal Plane Illuminated Mil-Dot
  • 34mm
  • Target Knobs
  • Side Focus
  • 0.1 MRAD
SWFA: $3,462.95
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943P3 Schmidt & Bender 4-16x42 Police Marksman LP 34mm Riflescope                                                             Schmidt & Bender 4-16x42 Police Marksman LP 34mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • Illuminated P3 Mil-Dot
  • 34mm
  • Side Focus
  • 1 Centimeter
SWFA: $2,998.95
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PRH09027 Premier Heritage 3-15x50 Tactical 34mm Riflescope                                                                       Premier Heritage 3-15x50 Tactical 34mm Riflescope
  • Matte
  • First Focal Plane Illuminated Gen II Mil-Dot
  • 34mm
  • Single-Turn 0.1 MRad (15 mrad of Elevation travel)
  • MTC Adjustments
SWFA: $2,499.00
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Peter if you can afford to put Swarovski & Zeiss and S&B on your rifles rather than Weaver, Sightron, and Nikon then it's time to come to the truth that you either need to suck it up and pay for the features and quality you appreciate or settle for something less.  There are some Tactical scopes comming in the next few months we hope the may do some of what you are asking for but not all of what you are wanting.  Super Sniper 3-9 variable, Weaver Tactical 3-15 or 4-20. For one thing there really are not very many FFP scopes out there and if you have already cut IOR, Nightforce and Leupold out of the herd what is left is really expensive U.S. Optics, Premier, Heinsoldt, S&B.  Of these the Heinsoldt would be my choice if I could afford it.  The other option is buy a fixed 10x Super Sniper and experiment with it to see if you like tactical knobs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2009 at 17:17
Pete E View Drop Down
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RC,

If I go with a FFP scope and a Mil/Mil set up, it seems to me that at any magnification, after taking a shot, I can observe the point of strike, and then use the Mil dot reticule to measure the correction needed and dial that straight in on the turrets...

I would settle for an MOA marked reticule and MOA turrets, but I just don't see the point of going "mixed"...

With regards FFP or 2nd FP, I would prefer FFP, but thats not set in stone...If I went with a 2nd FP, I guess I'd just have to use it at its max power when doing the long range plinking..

All the parameters I've mentioned have some wiggle room, but I'm having little luck finding scopes that get say 3/4 of them..I believe even the S&B PM11 4-16x50 has 1/4MOA clicks and a Mil based reticule for instance?

Regards,

Peter
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2009 at 17:35
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Urimaginaryfrn,

Those scopes cost about twice as much as what I have paid for any of my current scopes, and even leaving price aside, they are very heavy and bulky...

Do you know what the click adjustments on the new Weaver is going to be?

Bottom line  is that if the scope is medium priced, I'm will to make some compromises, but if I'm paying for top end, I really want to find one that meets my requirements as close as possible...

I had a chance to use some of the new IOR tactical scopes at the weekend and shot a 300 Ultra mag with one out to 1300m...

The guys also busted a few orange clays out to 500m and this is the sort of thing i want it for really...

One thing I noticed with the IOR is that quite often the reticule appeared to go silver or almost transparent...I've seen a similar thing to happen to Leupold reticules in the past...is there a reason for this? I can't say that I've encountered the same thing with any of my current scopes, including a couple of medium priced Meoptas I use...

Regards,

Peter
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2009 at 21:39
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Yikes  Sticker shock can be a b i t c h



Edited by Urimaginaryfrnd - May/30/2009 at 16:25
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/25/2009 at 21:52
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http://www.swfa.com/pc-13150-292-ior-3-18x42-tactical-35mm-rifle-scope.aspx


That's as close as you are going to get for under $2,000.  It's $1600 with rings.  The glass is good and IOR should have the bugs worked out by now.  I like the turrets and the magnification range.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2009 at 14:35
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Yes, the IOR 3-18 FFP is about the best fit for your specs under $2K.  The reticle turning silver issue is not a problem with the FFP.  Its reticle stays BOLD and BLACK and is much easier to see in all conditions than the SFP IORs.  I also feel it's the best scope for the price with this featureset--as long as you aren't putting it on a heavy kicking magnum, I won't recommend it for that application but a .260 won't hurt it.

Of course it is big and heavy but unfortunately we only have so many choices at the moment.  Another one to look for in the future is the Vortex tactical which will hopefully fall somewhere in that pricerange and offer similar features.  I'm impressed with Vortex bang for the buck quotent so far, but it's not available yet.

Eventually maybe someday Leupold will offer their 4.5-14 in FFP/TMR/.1MRAD config.  Overpriced as it will be, at least it'll be another option priced below the big boys.


Edited by Jon A - May/26/2009 at 14:40
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/26/2009 at 16:52
Pete E View Drop Down
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Thanks for the ideas gents...I'll give the British importer of IOR a ring and see what he has...
I'm also looking around at secondhand scopes and that might turn something up...

Regards,

Peter
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2009 at 07:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2009 at 11:45
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RC,

I have to confess I know thing about USOptic's except for the name...

Havng said that, it looks a very nice set up..What rifle is it sitting on?

As for my quest for a scope, theres yet another complication: many US company's won't export to the UK now as you guys need an export license to send a scope  abroad...it surely is a crazy world at times...

On a more positive not , I have a lead on a secondhand refurbished scope that I should know more about by Friday...Details are sketchy at the minute as the info is third hand, but its a S&B of some sort..

Regards,

Peter
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/27/2009 at 12:16
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It sits on a tuned Remington 700, cradled in an Accuracy International AICS1.5 stock.

S&B makes good stuff, good luck in that pursuit.  If it is a PM-series, it will nicely fit your stated needs.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 10:53
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RC,

Very nice set-up...I had a shoot of a  Remmy in 7mm wsm in one of those stocks the other weekend and I was very impressed. And the full blown AIAW sniper rifles are simply amazing bits of kit especially the latest issued ones in .338 Lapua..

With your Remmy set up, is the action bedded or bonded into the aluminum chassis or simply screwed in in the normal manner?

Regards,

Peter
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 11:05
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Mine is just screwed it.  I've known guys who bedded them in, but did so only after accuracy problems.  When I bolted the action in, she shot about 1/2MOA, so I figured bedding wasn't gonna improve anything - or not by much.

I agree the AI guns are nice, but here, they are exceedingly expensive.  It is a nice piece of hardware, but I'd spend my money differently.  Where you are, the price is probably more reasonable.

My only complaint of the AICS is the lack of palm swell.  The grip seems to have been made for men with small hands, and at 6"5' and 210, I ain't got small hands.  But it's a minor gripe.


Sorry to hi-jack the thread, as you were.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 16:27
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The thumb hole on the AI chassy seems to be too far forward  for my big paws too.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2009 at 19:22
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RC,

I know what you mean about the costs, and they are not any cheaper over here either.
Not so bad if you get to shoot one as a "company rifle" so to speak!

Build quality wise, the AIAW would be complete over kill for anything I would need, but as Military issue its got to be one of the better systems out there.

Its funny to think back to the mid 80's when these were first issued, replacing the old Enfield L42A1. For the guys involved it must have been like going from an old series 1 LandRover to the lastest high spec Range Rover overnight! And now the 7.62 Nato version is being repaced with the .338 Lapau one which is another quantum leap forward...

Regards,

Peter


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