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Long-ass Bushnell tubes

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2004 at 01:17
bryansd8 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: October/29/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13
I have read enough postings here to clearly see that the Bushnell 4200 Elites are excellent scopes. I'd buy one...but I can't
stand the nearly 2'-foot lengths! The 6-24x40 is 17" long. The 8-32 is worse at 18" long. I can't be the only person to ever
complain about these lengths, but I've never read a posting here that's ever brought this up.

4200's are, to the best of my knowledge, the longest, least ergonomically correct and most difficult to adjust (no grip on
super-smooth obj.) scope in the world, bar none.

I'll take a chill pill now But I have to ask: WHY? WHY ARE THESE SCOPES SO UNGAINLY LONG?! Weaver 6-24's
are 14" long. Leupold's are 13-1/2". Nobody elses except Tasco's Custom Shop scope is nearly as long. Burris is relatively
close, but still; I find it ridiculous. Can anybody shed some light on this?

Thanks!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2004 at 08:16
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087
Basically the longer the tube the better the picture (the depth of field is greater for one thing). If you want the same quaility of picture in a shorter tube the price goes up almost exp. For the money one of the best scopes made (or in other words an outstanding value) is Bushnells banner 6X18, click adjustments 50 mm bell, adjustable eye piece, cross hair only slightly too big, all for about $130. On any gun capable it will shoot sub min angles.If you think a 4200 is long. Personally I wish someone would start making longer fixed powers of outstanding quality. This is one reason why (I think their name is ) Super Sniper in fixed power are so reasonably prices for the powers and features they offer. Back to the 4200 though, it is very hard to "beat" even when comparing scopes costing more.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2004 at 11:45
bryansd8 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: October/29/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Dale~
32 views of my posting and you're the only one to take a crack at it. I appreciate it! Thanks for taking the time to answer
my inquiry. You've shed some light on this. I still remain confused by another point: as to why Bushnell, (some Burris
too) is essentially the only producer of scopes this long, however. If they're that wonderful, and that reasonably priced,
the market of competition would dictate that Leupold, Zeiss, Swift, and others would be all over this and be making their
own. But pretty much nobody else does, and these aren't niche scopes. Bushnell is a huge company that mass
produces scopes of varying degrees of quality.

If other optics companies were feeling the heat on these Bushnells they'd make the same thing and not charge
exponentially higher $$ like you've said they do for shorter scopes. Yet, nobody is inclined to follow Bushnell's path.
I guess my bottom line is a sense of forboding like there's a valid back door reason Bushnell makes them this way and
nobody else does: they're not technically savvy enough like Leupold, or it costs too much, or they're behind the ball in
research in development or something of that nature. I'll have to check out the Banner, regardless. For $130 I assume
the light transmission and coating are less than ideal. You get what you pay for. I'm looking for a rock solid, reliable
anti-belding ground squirrel (1/2 size of prairie dogs) scope here for my forays to Central Oregon. Using a V24 from
Weaver...but I think I can do better...

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2004 at 15:18
Dale Clifford View Drop Down
Optics Jedi Knight
Optics Jedi Knight


Joined: July/04/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 5087

The only criterion I have for keeping a scope is repeatablity. When first purchased I put it on a gun of known accuracy and using known handloads, the scope must shoot an inital sub min. group. (usually no problem). 8 clicks to the right 3 shots submin. 8 clicks down sub-min 8 clicks to the left sub-min. Now the hard part, 8 clicks up and the better be in the same hole or the scope gets traded, no back to the factory BS (been there done that). I've had high dollar scopes that failed this test (almost at least once in every brand)  and played around with the factory warranty stuff. The disturbing part is that I've had supposedly cheap scopes that have passed amazingly(Simmons Aetec, Bushnell 6X18, Leo rifleman 4X12). I would think that the odds would be in my favor by paying top dollar. Perhaps in the long run they will, but trading in a high priced scope causes a greater degree of skinning than a cheaper, one and for the price one can usually try 2 low priced spreads which puts the proability back in my favor. The criteria I have selected takes in a lot of factors to work- resolution, clarity, mechanical stuff, and therefore does not rest on some single factor. I'm sure there are many shooters out there who have such and such 4 figure dollar scope that works for them every time. When they get tired of it I'll be glad to give it a new home. I can't do that for the some odd 50 long guns I have.

2nd question. Burris used to make some really fine fixed looong scopes. Shooters today do not (as reflected by even your question) want long scopes and the market is in shorter scopes. Bushnell is just big enough however to buck this market trend an still offer in the 4200 probably the best buy in this dollar range. (and in my opinion better than some $200 more scopes).

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/29/2004 at 17:03
Fist of Freedom View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: October/17/2004
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Points: 7
Howdy bryansd8! ...I'll take my 'pot-shot' at your scope-length question now. It's quite easy to forget that the field of optics design is a world of compromise. The longish answer to your question is that, all else being equal, one of the surest, and least complicated ways to achieve adequate optical correction is to lengthen the distance between the elements of the optical design ( in our case, a telescopic sight ). More distance between the elements reduces the amount of "bending (angle-wise)" of the light path required to render an acceptable target image.  Also, a longer scope design can be less expensive to produce because it generally reduces the number of optical elements needed to correct the various aberrations and distortions which the manufacturer must overcome in order to achieve a product us shooters will buy!   This expains why earlier telescopic sights, such as those used in the Civil War, were extremely long. Conversely, as the optical design is shortened, more optical elements are generally required, and higher-quality glass is oftentimes needed, to control and correct the stream of light passing through the scope. And now, with all the above said -the short answer to your question: Reasonably priced scope, mid-grade glass& coatings, with sound construction and a good sight picture: Long Tube.   Hope this helps, partner.             
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: October/30/2004 at 12:06
bryansd8 View Drop Down
Optics GrassHopper
Optics GrassHopper


Joined: October/29/2004
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 13
Dale Clipper and Fist...you guys rock!
Thank you for your explanation on all this. It makes sense. I took Dales word and checked out the Banner 6-18x50 and it
was a nice scope. Obviously the coatings/glass were of $130 quality, but it was a nice scope. I'm getting something...3200 or
4200 for a DPMS varmint upper. With a Leupold LR 6-20x50 I squeaked out about 1/2" groups. But I moved the scope to a
Savage tactical. Soooo...the .223 needs a good, solid, reliable, high-resolution scope.

Thanks dudes!
—Bryansd8
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