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LONG RANGE SCOPE RECOMMENDATION

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 22:17
KIMBER8400AT View Drop Down
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I need some advice on a scope for long range bench shooting.  From ranges 500 - 1000 yards.
The rifle is 308 Kimber bolt action Advanced Tactical.
Price range is up to $1,200 with MOA reticle that's what I'm comfortable with.

I'm 80% convinced based on my research and help from this forum to purchase Viper PST FFP 6-24x5mm.
But before I finalize it, I want to hear last thoughts about it.
thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 22:20
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buy a premier they have a new option comes with water inside..
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 22:21
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Nikon brother
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 22:22
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Ya I read about your problem with the scope,
any particular model on the nikon?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 23:44
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He is being funny with the Nikon thing.

If you want MOA reticle (not something I recommend, but to each his own) in an FFP scope, Vorex Viper PST FFP is pretty much your only option.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/05/2012 at 23:54
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I looked thru a few vortex scopes and they are pretty good. i guess they have different levels of glass as well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 00:12
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Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

He is being funny with the Nikon thing.

If you want MOA reticle (not something I recommend, but to each his own) in an FFP scope, Vorex Viper PST FFP is pretty much your only option.

ILya


Could you elaborate as to why you wouldn't recommend MOA?
Based on my research as long as the turret and the reticle are the same moa/moa or Mil/mil they are both give same results. However in a hybrid moa/mil it is time consuming.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 00:16
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For bench shooting I would choose a SFP myself.
S-III Sightron with MOA reticle.
If, you are going to be in a hurry shooting unknown distances and using a reticle for your MOA correction, go with the FFP.
One of the few areas where I would disagree with Ilya, is I prefer MOA over MIL.
Again, it is just a preference.

Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

I need some advice on a scope for long range bench shooting.  From ranges 500 - 1000 yards.
The rifle is 308 Kimber bolt action Advanced Tactical.
Price range is up to $1,200 with MOA reticle that's what I'm comfortable with.

I'm 80% convinced based on my research and help from this forum to purchase Viper PST FFP 6-24x5mm.
But before I finalize it, I want to hear last thoughts about it.
thanks.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 00:22
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[QUOTE=Ernie Bishop]
For bench shooting I would choose a SFP myself.
S-III Sightron with MOA reticle.
If, you are going to be in a hurry shooting unknown distances and using a reticle for your MOA correction, go with the FFP.
One of the few areas where I would disagree with Ilya, is I prefer MOA over MIL.



Could u elaborate on ur disagreement please
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 00:29
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I was speaking specifically about reticle preference.
I prefer MOA over MIL.
Ilya prefers MIL over MOA.
We both can use either just fine.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 00:35
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Ok let me rephrase my Qn,
Why do you prefer moa over mil?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 00:56
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In practical use, there is little difference between MOA and MRAD based systems once you get used to them.  Trajectory and wind compensation are about the same in practical use.  One thing that does set them apart is range estimation.  If an object subtends 1 mrad, it is one thousandth of a distance between you and the object.  

With MOA, is an object subtends 1 MOA, it is one 3438th of the distance between you and the object you are looking at.  It works out approximately all right if you always think of the object size in inches and the distance between you and the object in yards (not very precise, but close enough).

When you are dealing with mrad, as long as you thing about of the size of the object and the distance to the object in the same units (yards, for example, or meters in my case), the math is always the same.

I tend to think in meters and occasionally in yards.  Very seldom in inches.  When I practice ranging something out in the field, I try to find the biggest available object to use for range estimation and thinking of their size in inches is inconvenient for me.

ILya
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 00:59
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Kimber, here is a post from jonoMT on a different thread on here, he defines it very well. The idea is you have to make your own preference and go from there.

"a mil (or mRad) is 1/1000th of the distance. So whatever units you are using, whether meters, yards, fathoms, light years, etc. that is always the case. At 100 yards, a mil is .10 yards (3.6") and at 100 meters, 10 cm. (Its only resemblance to the metric system is that both are decimal).

....1/10th mil clicks are more coarse that 1/4 MOA clicks. However, for most shooters that isn't an issue. If you do want more precision, then an MOA-based reticle is the way to go. The important thing, IMO, is to have turrets that match. The reason for this because you can either make a correction (whether for a follow-up shot or while zeroing) using the reticle or the turrets. I will respectfully disagree, for this reason, that a matching system is not of use to a shooter acting alone.

If you consider the use of a matching system in conjunction with a scope that has its reticle in the first focal plane (FFP), you can more reliably zero a rifle since it no longer matters if you are precisely 100 yards from a target (or 300 yards or 200 meters or whatever). If you see that the shot was off by 1.4 mils, you can dial in that correction. This is because an FFP scope can range at any magnification, so the number of mils measured across the target is always true.

With an SFP scope, there is only one magnification setting for rating (typically the highest power). At any other setting, the reticle is no longer sync'ed with the turrets. In other words, if you see that you were off by 1.4 mils in the reticle, but are at 8.5X instead of 10X on a scope that ranges at 10X, you would dial too in too much correction."
 
I hope this helped some, it was all jonoMT's doing.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 01:16
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Thanks to both of u guys for adequate explanation.
Once again I am convinced that FFP with MOA turret and reticle is the way to go for precision shooting.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 01:37
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Then get it!Bandito
I carry a cheat sheet that does the math already for me, and my drop chart even has a feature where if I am going for a specific size for reticle ranging it gives me the solution with no math.
It can do the same for MILs.
But rarely do I need to reticle range, but it is handy when technology fails.
I like MOA because it clicks with me.
I agree about the reticle matching the turrets!
Shooter's MOA 1MOA=1" at 100, 1MOA = 5" at 500 etc.
It is just easier for me.  Not better, just easier for me.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 09:47
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[QUOTE=Ernie Bishop] Then get it!

I will get it, I'm just not accustomed to make rush decisions based on impulse.
Need some time to weigh in every possibility that can go wrong.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 09:52
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I think you have heard the pros and the cons for each of the two scopes.
If FFP is for sure required then go with the Vortex or a more expensive FFP.
If FFP is not required go with the Sightron.
You could buy one of each and then sell the one you like the leastCool
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 10:03
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Ernie, I for sure needed to hear some thoughts about the subject, but in no way I need anybodys opinion on how to conduct my business. Although I appreciate ur sencere concern, that,s not the reason I'm in this forum.
Thanks for ur response though.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 10:59
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IMO the one down side to the PST 6-24x50 is it only has 65 MOA of adjustment.  That will probably put you right on the line for 100 yard zero and being able to reach 1000 yards.  You will for sure want at least a 20 MOA base.  I had an IOR scope that had 70 MOA and just by the luck of the draw, I could only get to about 930 yards with the 20 MOA base.  So just be aware if you plan on shooting that far, it may be a slight issue.  I ended up getting a 30 MOA base and it worked okay for me.  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 11:01
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Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

but in no way I need anybodys opinion on how to conduct my business.


Was that really necessary?  He was not trying to tell you how to do your business, he was just tossing out options.  Loco 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 11:18
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:

IMO the one down side to the PST 6-24x50 is it only has 65 MOA of adjustment.  That will probably put you right on the line for 100 yard zero and being able to reach 1000 yards.  You will for sure want at least a 20 MOA base.  I had an IOR scope that had 70 MOA and just by the luck of the draw, I could only get to about 930 yards with the 20 MOA base.  So just be aware if you plan on shooting that far, it may be a slight issue.  I ended up getting a 30 MOA base and it worked okay for me.  



Currently my rifle is set up with 20 moa base.
IMO with elevation adjustment and reticle I'll be able to shoot at 1000 yards and most likely beyond.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 11:25
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Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:


Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

but in no way I need anybodys opinion on how to conduct my business.


Was that really necessary?  He was not trying to tell you how to do your business, he was just tossing out options.  Loco 


One always has that option buying different scopes, comparing them and keeping the one that they liked. But IMO the purpose of this forum is to obtain sufficient knowledge to skip the above step. Otherwise why even join a forum.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 11:33
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Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:


Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

but in no way I need anybodys opinion on how to conduct my business.


Was that really necessary?  He was not trying to tell you how to do your business, he was just tossing out options.  Loco 


One always has that option buying different scopes, comparing them and keeping the one that they liked. But IMO the purpose of this forum is to obtain sufficient knowledge to skip the above step. Otherwise why even join a forum.

To give you better information on what options to TRY.  No one has your eyes, your like/dislikes, and certainly not your thought processes.  Recommendations are just that... the end user has to "finally decide".
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 11:40
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Originally posted by Kickboxer Kickboxer wrote:


Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

Originally posted by supertool73 supertool73 wrote:


Originally posted by KIMBER8400AT KIMBER8400AT wrote:

but in no way I need anybodys opinion on how to conduct my business.


Was that really necessary?  He was not trying to tell you how to do your business, he was just tossing out options.  Loco 


One always has that option buying different scopes, comparing them and keeping the one that they liked. But IMO the purpose of this forum is to obtain sufficient knowledge to skip the above step. Otherwise why even join a forum.


To give you better information on what options to TRY.  No one has your eyes, your like/dislikes, and certainly not your thought processes.  Recommendations are just that... the end user has to "finally decide".


Then in any scenario when one needs comparison b/w scopes u could just advice to get them all see what u like and return the rest. The Qn is would that apptoach do any service?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: July/06/2012 at 11:43
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You've been given a lot of latitude.  It is clear you fit the definition of obtuse...

reason is not automatic... those who deny it cannot be defeated by it...
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