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Long Range scope for 7mm STW project

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 15:02
Wapiti1 View Drop Down
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First, I would like to thank you all for your insight and time spent on this forum.  I have been lurking for a while trying to glean as much info as possible and you have been quite helpful.

So, I picked up an older Savage 116 with no bolt.  The previous owner's angry soon to be ex-wife removed the bolts from all of his rifles (28 to be exact) and disposed of them in the trash.  He was able to retrieve most of them, but not the ones for this rifle and two pre-64 Winchesters (I bought those as well for parts). 

I put a new bolt in the Savage and have re-barreled it with a McGowen 7mm STW barrel, bedded it, slicked up the action, etc.  It now needs a hat so to speak. 

The following look about right and fit into my price range (500-1000):
Nikon Monarch 5-20X50
Minox ZA5 4-20X50
Weaver Tactical 4-20X50
Trijicon Accupoint 5-20X50 (this one is over my price range, but is on special at another vendor, and I would see if SWFA will price match it)

Only scopes with a Mildot or BDC style reticle are being considered.  I would like to have the option of  holding over or dialing the turret.  This is a hunting rifle, and there is a need for a fast accurate shot.  Think shots from zero to 700 yards, initially and 1000 yards after I get some time behind the trigger. 

First, are these usable at 20X?  Should I be looking at 14-15X max magnification scopes in this price range to get better glass?  

Is one of these a standout compared to the others?  I haven't seen a lot of information on these particular scopes. 

Thanks for you help.  Hopefully, I can contribute as well.

Jeremy
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 15:59
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Welcome to Optics Talk! 

Whoa...that was one angry woman! Shocked 

I would nix the Monarch from your list. I'm as big of a Nikon floosy as there is on this forum, but that scope isn't very good, unfortunately. 
To quote former President, Lyndon B. Johnson..."That dog won't hunt". The other Monarchs are OK. 

Can't comment on the Weaver, but the other two scopes mentioned, are really better than the Nikon.   


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 16:38
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I think a Sightron S3 or Vortex Viper PST/HS would do well here.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 16:54
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Of this list the one I have owned is the Trijicon 5-20x50 and I have had several of them. I tend to like the red post with triangle very well and find its illumination considerably brighter than than of the mil-dot version however I have a green mil-dot one here. Illumination can be very helpful and I find it particularly useful at night for coyotes or for any dangerous game rifle a reticle like the Trijicon post with illuminated triangle is a fine choice.  The down side to many of these scopes Trijicon and Weaver tactical are that they only have 50 moa of internal adjustment so good out to about 500 to 600 yds possibly further with a plus 20 moa base.  When I would select the trijicon as the best choice is when illumination is critical such as areas where there are large preditors but then we are back to the post triangle reticle.  7mm STW is a fast bullet about 3330 fps for a 140 gr I believer so I am pretty sure I would pick one of these scopes.  I own two of the SS -5-20 and one of the Zeiss 4.5-14 the SS you dial in correction its Mil Mil FFP so you can use the reticle for known hold over at any power. The Zeiss you work with the balistic Rapid Z calculaton on Zeiss web site to try to figure out what power you need to set the second focal plane reticle scope at then test it on the range. My 300WSM 190 SMK 2900 FPS I would set the scope at 10x and shots would be pretty close to the line marks and I tested it to 600 yds so its a set it on the right power and work at that power or use any power work off the center X and dial in but there again limited internal adjustment with a 1 inch tube.  The SS has just as good of glass but for me a better system. The Minox wont get you past probably 500 yds past that the best reasonably priced ones are the SS and even the 3-9x42 Mil Quad would do it.  The 4.5-14 Conquest has more internal adjustment than its 6.5-20x50 brother.
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQ
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,299.95 
Zeiss 4.5-14x50 Conquest Rifle Scope Rapid Z 800 Zeiss 4.5-14x50 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5214919972
  • Matte
  • Rapid Z 800
  • 1"
  • Side Focus
  • Hunting Turrets
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$949.95 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 17:08
Urimaginaryfrnd View Drop Down
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Other possibles:
Vortex 4-16x50 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope Vortex 4-16x50 Viper PST 30mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - PST416S1M
  • Matte
  • EBR-1 Mil Reticle
  • 30mm
  • .10 Mil Adjustments
$699.95 
Leupold 4.5-14x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope Duplex Leupold 4.5-14x50 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - LEU54660
  • Matte
  • Duplex
  • 30mm
  • Long Range
  • Side Focus
  • M1 Target Knobs
  • Free Leupold Flip-Open Lens Covers
  • Includes FREE Leupold Boresighter
$1,099.95 
Leupold 4.5-14x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope Mil-Dot Leupold 4.5-14x40 Mark 4 LR/T 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - LEU56130
$899.95 
Leupold 4.5-14x50 VX-3 30mm Riflescope Leupold 4.5-14x50 VX-3 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - LEU115238
  • Matte
  • Duplex
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • Xtended Twilight Lens System
  • Custom Dial SystemThunbs Up
  • Includes FREE Leupold Boresighter
$809.95  
Bushnell 6-24x50 Elite Tactical Rifle Scope Bushnell 6-24x50 Elite Tactical Rifle Scope       Question(Probably not out Yet)
Stock # - BUSET6245FG
  • Matte Finish
  • 30mm Tube
  • G2DMR Reticle
  • First Focal Plane
  • Rainguard HD
  • Side Focus
  • Ultra-Wide Band Coating
  • Argon Purging Process
$999.95 
Sightron 6-24x50 SIII 30mm Riflescope Sightron 6-24x50 SIII 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SIIISS624X50LRMOA
  • Matte
  • MOA-2
  • 30mm
  • Side Focus
  • 1/4 MOA Tactical Knobs
$914.95 
SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 3-9x42 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SS39X42MQ 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 17:17
DCAMM94 View Drop Down
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You might also try the Viper HS LR in 4-16x44 or 4-16x50.  The Conquest is another great suggestion, as are the higher-end Leupolds.  Since I got my Viper HS I've become kind of a homer for them.  I am truly amazed at the glass quality and features at the price point.  Bottom line, the PST at $700 or the HS LR at $550 (44mm obj) outweigh the marginal (to me) increase in the quality of the Zeiss glass.  Me, before I spend that kind of dough, I'm going to make darn sure I get to look through everything I'm considering, and I'm going to look at stuff a long way off to see how/if the AO focus works for me, and whether there are any edge effects.  Good luck.

Deck
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 19:48
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Originally posted by Urimaginaryfrnd Urimaginaryfrnd wrote:

Of this list the one I have owned is the Trijicon 5-20x50 and I have had several of them. I tend to like the red post with triangle very well and find its illumination considerably brighter than than of the mil-dot version however I have a green mil-dot one here. Illumination can be very helpful and I find it particularly useful at night for coyotes or for any dangerous game rifle a reticle like the Trijicon post with illuminated triangle is a fine choice.  The down side to many of these scopes Trijicon and Weaver tactical are that they only have 50 moa of internal adjustment so good out to about 500 to 600 yds possibly further with a plus 20 moa base.  When I would select the trijicon as the best choice is when illumination is critical such as areas where there are large preditors but then we are back to the post triangle reticle.  7mm STW is a fast bullet about 3330 fps for a 140 gr I believer so I am pretty sure I would pick one of these scopes.  I own two of the SS -5-20 and one of the Zeiss 4.5-14 the SS you dial in correction its Mil Mil FFP so you can use the reticle for known hold over at any power. The Zeiss you work with the balistic Rapid Z calculaton on Zeiss web site to try to figure out what power you need to set the second focal plane reticle scope at then test it on the range. My 300WSM 190 SMK 2900 FPS I would set the scope at 10x and shots would be pretty close to the line marks and I tested it to 600 yds so its a set it on the right power and work at that power or use any power work off the center X and dial in but there again limited internal adjustment with a 1 inch tube.  The SS has just as good of glass but for me a better system. The Minox wont get you past probably 500 yds past that the best reasonably priced ones are the SS and even the 3-9x42 Mil Quad would do it.  The 4.5-14 Conquest has more internal adjustment than its 6.5-20x50 brother.
SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope SWFA SS 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope
Stock # - SSHD520X50MQ
  • Patented First Focal Plane Mil-Quad Reticle
  • 30mm
  • HD Model
  • Locking Ocular Adjustment
  • 0.1 Mrad Elevation & Windage
  • 10 Mils Per Revolution
  • 30 Mils Of Total Travel
  • Side Focus
$1,299.95 
Zeiss 4.5-14x50 Conquest Rifle Scope Rapid Z 800 Zeiss 4.5-14x50 Conquest Rifle Scope
Stock # - ZEI5214919972
  • Matte
  • Rapid Z 800
  • 1"
  • Side Focus
  • Hunting Turrets
  • Etched Glass
  • 2nd Plane
$949.95 
I have both and agree with Urimaginaryfrnd that these are both best picks at this price range. I have made the trek into the 20X range and am in the process of dropping back to the 14-16 max for the best results. Seldom are conditions favorable enough to use the 20 X because of problems caused by the mirage.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 19:56
Wapiti1 View Drop Down
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Thank for the help.  I clearly missed the concept of factoring in internal adjustment range.

I don't currently use a system for holdover/dialing in, so I will be learning to dial in based on MOA or MIL's.  I suppose that based on that, a FFP MIL reticle with MIL turret adjustments may be the ticket.  I would get a backup range finder (albeit not as precise as a good laser), and a common system to make adjustments with.  I am thinking a little out loud here. 

So, if the list changes to Zeiss 4.5-14X50 Conquest (SFP reticle), Vortex Viper PST 4-16X50 (FFP reticle), SS 3-9X42 (FFP reticle) or Leupold 4.5-14X50 VX3 with CDS (I missed this option altogether).  Where do I stand?  As far as looking through them is concerned, that is a 3 hour drive from my home.  A worthwhile trip, but I want to do my homework before the trip. 

I had an easier time picking the caliber for the rifle.  And down the rabbit hole I go.

Thanks again.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/07/2012 at 23:49
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
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Cotton,
Welcome to the forum!
Several of us like to play at distance.
Good advice has been given.
For distance I use these the most: Vortex FFP, Leupold VX-3 and Mark 4 (SFP & FFP), NF, Sightron S-III
I lean toward a MOA turret and MOA reticle-My preference.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 07:28
Wapiti1 View Drop Down
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Thanks to all for your help.  After talking with several folks (thank you Mr. Bishop), I pulled the trigger on this dude.  Our benevolent hosts will be shipping this out with rings, mount, etc. shortly.

Why this one?  I got a good deal on it through the pricematch program, and it fell close enough to my budget to be viable. 

I also liked several features on it that should help me in the field:  FFP reticle with numbered hashmarks was probably the biggest driver.  Using the reticle to dial corrections, or to simply hold for a correction was a nice concept.  This reticle, to me, has a good blend of information without being too cluttered like some of the Horus reticles. 

Anyway, I'll let you know how I like it.  I don't have anything readily available to compare it to, but will see if I can get some time with my friends Nightforce, and Huskemaw for comparison.  Huskemaw hasn't had much press on this forum that I have seen, but my buddy loves his, and it is comparable in price.  I thought that they are too small/new of a company and didn't offer any advantage.

Bushnell 3.5-21x50 Elite Tactical 34mm Rifle Scope


G2DMR Bushnell 3.5-21x50 Elite Tactical 34mm Rifle Scope
Stock # - BUSET35215G
  • Matte Finish
  • 34mm Tube
  • First Focal Plane G2 DMR Reticle
  • Ultra Wide Band Coating
  • Fully Multi-Coated Optics
  • RainGuard® HD
  • 0.1MIL Locking-Target Turrets
  • Side Focus
  • 4” Sunshade Included
$1,399.95

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 07:40
cheaptrick View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Wapiti1 Wapiti1 wrote:



I had an easier time picking the caliber for the rifle.  And down the rabbit hole I go.

Thanks again.

Ain't that the truth!! Excellent
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 07:45
Ernie Bishop View Drop Down
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Glad you got what you wanted.
After doing your homework, you have a much better sense of what is out there and what you want.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/15/2012 at 10:44
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Originally posted by Wapiti1 Wapiti1 wrote:

.... but not the ones for this rifle and two pre-64 Winchesters (I bought those as well for parts). 



Plenty of pre-64 enthusiasts would get a bolt and keep those as rifles. Myself included.

Kevin is always looking for a pre-64 too. http://www.weaverrifles.com/
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: February/17/2012 at 19:22
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One of the Winchesters was rebarreled at some point in an oddball cartridge: marked .35 Magnum.  It appears to be similar to a 358 Norma, but I haven't cast the chamber.  It is in rough shape, and only worth the action.  The stock is cracked at the wrist, and it has little blue on it.  I'll get around to building it at some point.

The other rifle (a 30/06) I gave to my dad, and he sourced a bolt for it.  Unfortunately, it will need to be headspaced for the new bolt.  He is deciding what to do with it; set back the barrel, or rebarrel.  The stock is in good shape, so I voted for a rebarrel so the stock would be usable without gaps. 

Rest assured they are not getting cannibalized.  Well, one is, but it has been abused too much to save.


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