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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2005 at 15:46
Canyon Runner View Drop Down
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Advance thank-you to any and all replies.

 

I am shooting a Remington Model 700 ADL Synthetic, 30-06 Springfield

 

Here's the dilemma;

 

I have recently relocated to my nephew's hunting grounds in SE Washington. The terrain is now one massive canyon with dozens of fingers in the middle of 1000's of acres of wheat fields.

 

To make a long story short, every buck we saw was across on the other side, or a 1/4-mile across the wheat, and putting the old Redfield 3-9 on the animal got old quick. My nephew's telling me it's a buck and asking if I can see three points (minimum here) and I'm popping my eye out of its socket just trying to see if it really has horns while he's looking for eye guards!  Incidentally, he's shooting a 300 Mag with a 4-12 something on it.

 

As you all know, running up, down, and all around a desert canyon with a day pack on just to get glimpses of whitetail butts and lots of tracks sucks.

 

I need a scope. I'm not as concerned with the distance of the shot as I am with properly identifying the points, so I don't need any fancy rangefinding capabilities or anything like that, just shock and fog proof, a nice clear picture, and some serious magnification, but of course, for less money than my rifle cost LOL.

 

I've been looking a bit, and SWFA is selling a Simmons Whitetail Classic 6.5-20x50 for $100. Great numbers, and sounds like just what I need, but pretty inexpensive too (there must be something "below acceptable" about it?). Any thoughts on this scope or some recommendations on comparable?



Edited by Canyon Runner
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2005 at 16:44
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I would take the Redfield 3-9x over that Simmons any day of the week.

 

I have a Simmons 6.5-20 44Mag on a .308 deer rifle.  Dark, does not hold POI, and you can't see through it with any moisture on the glass.  Plus 6.5x is just to much magnification for deer hunting. I don't use that rifle very often, it needs a better 3-9x on it.  Maybe we can trade  People here all have brands that they love and hate.  I am one to hate the Simmons.

 

What is the most you are willing to spend?

 

For under $350 there is the highly recommended Burris Fullfield II with a spotting scope included.  I don't have any experience with the FF2.

 

On a <300 budget, I would look into the Nikon Buckmaster 4.4-14x40.

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/6468/nikon_buckmaster_4. 5-14x40.htm

 

or the Bushnell 3200 Elite 4-12x40

 

 

 



Edited by Boomholzer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2005 at 17:05
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The Bushnell Banner 4-12x40 is a pretty good scope and you can get one for around 100 bucks though the elite 3200 mentioned above would be better if you're willing to pay the extra cash. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2005 at 17:25
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Hello Canyon Runner,

I own a 6.5-20x50 Simmons WTC, mine is mounted on a custom Ruger #1 in 7mm-08 Ackley Improved.  After coughing up some cash to give my Ruger #1 a face lift I too wanted to buy something that was inexpensive, clear, bright, and would work for me at the gun range and possibly the field before the end of the 2004/2005 hunting season.  The good news is for a hundred bucks this scope is clear, bright, inexpensive and my rifle will shoot 3/4 to 1/2 inch four shot groups consistently with it.  My purpose for my Ruger #1 was to have a low recoil gun that can launch a 139 grain bullet close to 3100 fps.  It will be used only from a blind that has a good solid rest to take deer out to 300 yards.  So far I have been successful, I passed the 200 mark the other day and hopefully I will achieve the 250 mark this weekend.  For what I use this scope for I have been pleased.  The bad news is this scope is huge, heavy, and you will need the highest scope rings you can find.  It will be hard for you to find that correct cheek to gun rest that you are use to.  I think you will get tired of lugging and dragging this big scope up and down those hillsides.  I also think that a good quality scope up to 12 power is more than enough power to shoot a deer.  If you wanted to stay with the Simmons brand than maybe you might want to look at the AETECs.  I plan to upgrade my scope sometime this year.  I only bought it because hunting season was here and cash was getting tight, but I plan on upgrading to something different by the end of this year.  You might want to consider a bushnell elite, burris fullfield, or a weaver grand slam with a 40 something milimeter objective.  Hope I helped, good luck.                               
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2005 at 17:28
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$350 is definitely pushing it, hell $300 is too LOL, but, like I say, I need a better scope. I know you get what you pay for, most times, and you don't need a piece of crap when the big one walks out but...       

                                                                                                                                                         I'll look under the couch cushions and see if I can find any more coins...

 

I will look at the Bushnells, Nikons and Burris. Links you sent too, and thanks

 

You really think my old Redfield is a better scope? I was not happy to say the least, and have half a mind to ship it to you just to try the Simmons LOL. 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2005 at 17:58
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Possibly embarassing question...

Am looking at the Burris FF II, 4.5-14x42 as recommended, and came across something I have been seeing all over the place...Adjustable Objective? Can someone tell me what this is and what it does in hunters terms? Most of these scopes are adjustable power I understand, and I'm used to just cranking one knob on my Redfield to do that, what's this new fangled deamonry?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2005 at 18:01
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check out (competitor)usa. they've got a sale on burris fullfield 2's. I ordered a 3-9x50mm with
ballistic plex for 197 bucks. from all I read, these are good scopes. this salea is good thru
January! Good luck!

ps: sorry SWFA!!!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/05/2005 at 18:37
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Originally posted by Canyon Runner Canyon Runner wrote:

Possibly embarassing question...

Am looking at the Burris FF II, 4.5-14x42 as recommended, and came across something I have been seeing all over the place...Adjustable Objective? Can someone tell me what this is and what it does in hunters terms? Most of these scopes are adjustable power I understand, and I'm used to just cranking one knob on my Redfield to do that, what's this new fangled deamonry?



A common addition once the power exceeds 10x.

1) it adjusts for the range so that the image appears in focus to your eye.

2) Parallax:  It places the vitual image inside the scope on the same plane as the recticle.  Otherwise when you move your head, the crosshairs will move relative to the image or target. 
Use your pointer finger and place a distant image above it (pretend the top of your finger is the crosshairs) and then move your head from side-to-side. See how the perceived point-of-aim moves?  Although a very drastic example, this does demonstrates that is is important that the image and recticle lie on the same plane.


Edited by Boomholzer
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2005 at 09:18
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Good choice with the Burris.  Go for it.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/06/2005 at 10:10
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If you are willing to spend 350 why choose anything other than a Leupold. I hunt the same areas as you living in Moscow ID. I use a VX-II 3-9x50 and have seen and used no better scope. I've guided guy's with less quaitly scopes and half the time they end up using my rifle on their second shoot. My personal opinion is that if you hunt alot, after your first few years the quailty of a cheaper scope is going to show you why it's a cheaper scope. But if the Leupolds are still out of your budget go with the Burris FF II mentioned above. One of my Marines has one and it seems like a really nice scope (I've shot it a few times) only problem that he has with it is that it fogs up alittle when it's really cold and wet out.

 

Hopefully I'll see you out in the woods.

 

PONCHO 



Edited by poncho
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/15/2005 at 15:46
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riverrat,

 

We can not monitor all prices at all times so we implemented our 110% low price guarantee.  We will always beat any price you can find......... and supply you with cool web sites to post hunting pictures and discuss optics.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/18/2005 at 14:52
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Hi all, I've been reading for hours today...literally trying to find the best scope for around $100.00 for my Winchester model 670 in 30-06. I'm also looking for a scope for my new 50 cal. Thomson Omega. I think I've found both in a Simmons Whitetail Expedition. 4-12x42 Ao for my Omega and 6-18x42 AO for my Winchester. All I have to do is locate them...somewhere 

 

I bought a 1.5-6x32 Simmons for my slug gun...Remington 11-87 and the Ashperical Lens Technology is the best I've ever looked through. I have a 6-18x40 Redfield 5 star on my Winchester now and I'd like to give it back to the guy I borrowed it from (my father) because it really sucks as far as light transmission is concerened  It's very foggy and when you turn it up to 18x to get close on that varmint, all you can see is heat wave and fog... HATE IT HATE IT HATE IT!!!

 

Well, with all of that said, go get a Simmons Whitetail Expedition...I can't afford a $1000.00 dollar Zeiss either

 

Thanks for letting me post...this is an EXCELLENT sight!!!

 

Keep up the GREAT work!

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2005 at 04:27
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Bushnell Elite3200/ 4200 series, Burris Fullfield II or Weaver Grand Slam will solve your problems.  Just take a deep breath, calm down and relax.  You can always put more money into the piggy bank besides, hunting season is over and you've got until next fall to save.  So it might cut into your beer money for a few months; DRINK CHEAPER BEER AND POCKET THE SAVINGS FOR THAT NEW SCOPE!  DON'T BUY SOME CHEAP SH_T SCOPE THAT YOU'LL REGRET LATER!  SWFA usually has some good deals on their sample list especially after the SHOT show.  I bought a Bushnell 4200 2.5-10x40 a couple years ago from them at a hell of a good price!  
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2005 at 08:17
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Hey gozarian,

 

DON'T BUY SOME CHEAP SH_T SCOPE THAT YOU'LL REGRET LATER! 

 

What do you mean by this statement??? Are you trying to say that the Simmons Whitetail Expedition is a CHEAP SH_T SCOPE???

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2005 at 15:52
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idaho 34, I used to own some Simmons products but no more.  I can't afford to get out somewhere a long way from anywhere and have my scope crap out on me like a Simmons I once had.  Remember, you USUALLY get what you pay for and Simmons aren't known for their durability.  Maybe the Whitetail Expedition is a better scope than the other junk they make but for a little more money you can get a whole lot better scope!


Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2005 at 16:52
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I'll second gozarian on this one.  My experience with Simmons has been a bit spotty as well.  It might work without a hitch or it might not.  You won't know until it is too late. 

 

Typically, I would recommend Burris Fullfield II to people who think of getting a Simmons.  If money is REALLY tight, Sightron S1 is very good for the money.  Weaver V3 and V9 are not bad either.  Bushnell Trophy is also surprisingly durable (and airgun rated).  In my opinion though most people who can afford to go hunting can afford to spend $200 on Fullfield II 3-9x40 with Ballistic Plex.  A good way to do this is to monitor www.samplelist.com for good deals.

 

Ilya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2005 at 17:21
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Gozarian, all in all, optics have come along way since the 80's. Some have improved like Simmons and Weaver some have backpedaled like Tasco and Bushnel.

 

Please don't take one bad experience with Simmons and spread it like butter.

 

By the way, guess who makes Weaver??? Simmons of coarse. Simmons also makes Redfied. I know that because I spoke with a rep from Simmons 2 days ago to find out more on the W/E's and they said they don't make them any longer so but them up now because once they're gone, they're gone. Simmons has replaced the W/E line with their Aetec.

 

Also, Simmons is half the price of the Weaver Grand Slam...$150.00 vs.$300.00 and since Simmons makes Weaver now and the Grand Slam is Weaver's top of the line like W/E is/was Simmons top of the line, they should be the same quality scope.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2005 at 18:16
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idaho34,

 

It is not quite correct to say that Simmons makes Weaver.  Meade Corporation owns Weaver, Redfield and Simmons brands.  Weaver is positioned as a higher end scope line than Simmons.  That means that they spend more money on making a Grand Slam scope than they do on making a W/E scope.  More money spent on production almost invariably means a better scope.

 

As it is Grand Slam, T-Series and Tactical scopes by Weaver are either built in Japan or assembled out of Japanese made components. All other Weaver scopes are made elsewhere in the orient.

 

All Simmons scopes are made in China (early Aetecs were made in Phillipines, then production was moved to China). 

 

All of these scopes (Weaver, Redfield and Simmons) are basically outsourced to different factories in Japan, Phillippines and China where more money means better quality control.  A case in point is a Japanese manufacturer Hakko.  They are capable of building absolutely superb scopes, but at a hefty price tag.  If you do not want to pay that much the product is going to mathc how much you are willing to pay.

 

Ilya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2005 at 19:55
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Koshkin,

 

OK, you're right. It goes without saying that you get what you pay for...with everything in life.

 

I just can't afford to spend more money on a scope than I did on the rifle. I paid $300.00 for my Win 670 and $400.00 for my Omega. I have a family of 7 and I spend what I can to put meat on the table. I'm not a horn hunter...I hunt for food and that is what my family eats the whole year through.

 

Now I'm sure I'll hear that I shouldn't have had so many children, but family is where my heart is and I wouldn't have it any other way!!!

 

That said, I just wanted to give canyon runner my opinion. I wasn't trying to turn this into anything else so I'm sorry for getting loud about it. I guess I take offense when I think someone calls my equipment SH_T! So it happens to be what I can aford to buy and it works just great for me and my situation.

 

 

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2005 at 20:13
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Well, idaho34, you are right that Simmons is not a piece of sh_t.  Besides, if it works well enough for you then that's really all you need to know.  If you already have the scope and it is holding up allright, use it and enjoy it.

 

I just thought I'd clarify a little on these scopes and where they are made.  Simmons W/E and Weaver Grand Slam are not the same quality and that is really the only point I wanted to make.  This forum is largely a tool for prospective buyers to research what is available in their price range so I wanted to clear that up.

 

I believe that you can find an acceptable scope in any price range from $100 and up.  That being said the sweetspot of hunting optics, IMO is in $200-$450 range. That is where you can have the most performance for the money.  I do not believe that $1400 rifle scopes are sufficiently better than $400 to be worth their pricetags.  There is a more significant difference though between $100 scopes and $300 scopes.

 

Simmons while better than some other brands are not, IMO, best scopes in their price range.  I have mentioned a few scopes in my first post above that cost the same as SImmons and are more durable. 

 

Generally when I call an optic a piece of sh_t I usually refer to NcStar, BSA, Tasco (other than the Titan/Euroclass, I suppose) or their derivatives.

 

As for children, I'd be the last person to tell anyone to have less children (I just got married and I am thinking of having children myself).  Moreover, I think hunters and shooters should have more children or this tradition is going to die out slowly but surely under pressure from leftwing media :)  At least, I think, you'd be the guy who can give his children values worthy of this country (I grew up the Soviet Union and came to America as a refugee; hence, I have a very keen appreciation of America).

 

Respectfully,

Ilya

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/20/2005 at 22:22
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Seems I have disturbed a hornet’s nest LOL. Thank you all for your suggestions and advice. I have great news...I am going to step up (with the wife's blessing to boot)!

 

So here goes:

 

Burris FF II 4.5-14x42 $336.99 (purchase date will be after the current special with the spotter, so please keep that in mind)

 

Bushnell Elite 3200 5-15x40 $308.99 (gotta like the rainguard)

 

Bushnell Elite 4200 4-16x40 $398.99 (why is the 4200 worth $100 more?)

 

Leupold VX-II 4-12x40 $399.95 (would prefer higher power on high end, but 6-18 makes a close shot difficult

 

Any help appreciated… Chris, are any of these going on sale next month or two?

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2005 at 08:56
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Just sent my Whitetail Classic back to the facotry--we'll see what they send back to me.  It was mounted on a .270 that I took to the range and used for deer.  I don't send alot of rounds through the gun, but this time I wanted to get some practice.  After the 5th round I noticed the reticle was now out of focus.  "What gives?" I thought.  I refocused the eyepiece only to find when the reticle is in focus the 'target' is not.

 

Came home planning to send it back for repairs on the spot.  However I got sidetracked by SWMBO.  Long story short--I suffered through this deer season as-is with the reticle in focus.  Luckily my three deer were all within 40 yards this year. 

 

So IMO if you plan on hunting game about deer size under 50 yds and have limited funds a Simmons may do the trick--as long as you can deal with some inconveniences.  However, if you plan on sitting at the range plunking round after round wth 2 in moa at 100yds or long range hunting with precision, get something of higher quality.

 

As for my plans, whatever Simmons returns will be re-mounted on my black powder gun.  Something else will go on my .270 (e.g. Conquest, Elite 4200, VX-lll, etc).

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2005 at 14:47
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Canyon Runner, if you can, go with the Bushnell 4200 , slightly better glass than the 3200!
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2005 at 16:36
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canyon runner, when you say "long range" that can mean alot of different things. Do you want a 4x-16x or a 6x-24x?? I know if I was shooting across a canyon I would want as much power as I could get, and still have excellant optics. My choice would be a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-24x40 AO. If you cant afford that much for a scope, then check out a Mueller. I just bought one of the Tactical series, and they are EXCELLANT for the price. You can get the "Eradicator model" which is a 8.5-25x50 AO with fine crosshair and dot (and illuminated reticle) for $200 off their site. www.muelleroptics.com

 

If thats too much power the next best "under $200 scope BNIB" is probably the Mueller 4-16x60 IGR. It is a German post reticle with a illuminated dot. Also VERY good glass for the price of $180.

 

I see you said that $380 is probably too much, but ask Chris at SWFA to match www.theopticszone.com 's price and you will have one hell of the deal.

Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: January/21/2005 at 20:16
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Gotta agree..You're either gonna get a good Simmons or a bad one...The Aetec seems to have a decent reliability record, A friend of mine put one on a 300 Wby Vanguard and its held up to about 150 rd.s so far..Can verify the Meade optics parent company scenario for Simmons and Weaver. For the money, the Weaver Grand Slam at around $260. is a really good buy. You could also try the 3200 Elite, or ( sorry to mention the competition) , but log onto CDNN.com and they have Redfield Illuminator's for $199..These are comparable to Leupold VX III's , etc. ,,maybe even a little better. The only downside is the flattened site picture takes some getting used to.

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