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Long Range 30-06

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2007 at 18:00
dpslusser View Drop Down
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Today was the first day of deer hunting for PA. I hunted all field the opening day; the first time in a long time. Unfortunately I wasn't prepared. The average effective range if a deer was in site, was about 200 yards. Which Im pretty dead-on at. There were two spots though, whcih were clear over 300 yards. These yardages were never attempted with my Remington 710 30-06 (shooting High-Point 165gr.).

Can these types (300-500) of yardage be achieved successfully with my type of gun. I only have the scope that came with the 710 when it was released. Whcih is a 4-9x40 bushnell. (Time for an upgrade)

Any suggestions on any thing (Bullet load, gun mod, scope, etc...)
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2007 at 18:41
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take the 710 and get rif of it, i hope you checked to make sure it wasnt in the lot of many with a recall on it. i prefer 150 gr bullets for my 30-06, 50.2 gr of 4064 was a sweet load. if you must keep the 710 i would strongly recommend a better scope, especially given your long shot situation something in a 4.5x14 may be a better choice.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2007 at 19:30
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I agree,150 gr in the 30-06 and 2 good mid range scopes are the Nikon Buckmaster and the Bushnell elite 3200,4x14x40 would work well.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2007 at 23:37
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I shoot a Rem 700 30-06 with a Nikon Monarch 4-16x42 scope.  It is deadly shooting a 150 gr. Barnes Triple Shock X with IMR4007SC.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/26/2007 at 23:56
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Im a noob when it comes to this stuff...but why should I knock my loads back to 150gr?

And why such negativity on the 710?

Is the 700 the best remington out there?

What caliber in the 700 would you go with?
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 01:27
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Not knocking the above responses, but I have hunted with my 30-06 for many years and have accounted for a fair amount of game. The 30-06 can handle a wide variety of bullet weights. If you need the speed, in other words shooting at fast moving game such as in driven hunts, the 150gr is the bullet. If the game is more stationary, go to 165 or better still 180gr for better knockdown effect.
The 30-06 is capable of taking game down at 400yds+ if the shooter does his part.
This past hunting season I took two kudu with 165gr at over 400yds.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 01:33
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I would also recommend a good 4-12 or 4-16 powered scope for shooting out to 300 yards.   The 150 gr. bullet will give you a bit better trajectory at longer ranges.
 
Perhaps 400 yards with lots of practice or unless someone is an ex-military sniper.
 
500 yards ... get closer no matter what your using.  Sorry, at that range and maybe this is the bow hunter coming out but that is not hunting that is sniping.  Yes, they make some Whiz Bang Uber magnums that fly flatter then a laser beam and they will reach out there but part of hunting is learning to get close enough to make a good clean kill at acceptable ranges that does not result in injured animals getting away.
 
K nuff of my soap box.  I think the 710 is fine (Like the 700 better) .30/06 is a fine cartridge and has done the job and done it well for over a 100 years.  If its the scope it came with then I would definitly up-grade.
Depending on your price range I'd look at the Nikon Buckmaster, Nikon Monarch, Burris FullField, Burris Signature, Sightron SII or the Weaver GrandSlam.
 
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 05:34
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I would use a smaller optic with less magnification for big game at that range... A 200-300 yard shot is within iron sight range for me, and a fixed 4x is easily competent to 400 yards on a target as large as a deer.
 
There is no need to overscope that rifle, when a smaller scope with less magnification is lighter and easier to carry, and has a better field of view for moving targets...like deer in Pa are likely to be doing after the first hour on opening day...:)
 
A Sightron S-1 3-9  would be a good scope for that rifle and I would stay with the 3-9x40, and practice shooting at longer range to gain confidence in your rifle and load, and in your shooting. Sighting in your rifle to hit about 3" high at 100 yards will allow a center of the chest hold out to 300 yards. A 165gr bullet strikes about 5" low at that range, depending on the particular brand of ammo, but is still in the heart lung area. If you put in a little range time you will see where the bullets land.
 
150, 165...0r 180 grain bullets are fine and will knock any deer down, but the 165 is a very good overall choice.
 
Not that this has anything to do with the discussion, but I did grow up in Pa, and my Cousin was a DFW in York county...one of the country's best deer areas...at that time. I spent a lot of time walking around that county.
 
TC
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 06:23
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Originally posted by dpslusser dpslusser wrote:

Im a noob when it comes to this stuff...but why should I knock my loads back to 150gr?

And why such negativity on the 710?

Is the 700 the best remington out there?

What caliber in the 700 would you go with?
 
the 710 is like a geo metro, its not if but when its going to break, the model 7 and the model 700 are so much better, your caliber is fine, 30-06 is plenty, the reason i like 150's is because i have had really good luck in the accuracy dept with them
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 06:49
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 If you are thinking of a new gun.Here are afew I would look at. My first choice would be the 308, I love the alround bullet,from 150 out to 185 I think. But I use 168gr,I might go back to a 155 or 165. Another choiceyou have is the big 7mm. also I am hearing alot about the 280.
 I also likemy270 shooting 130gr.and it shoots pretty flat, But alot of guys on here dont likethe 270 because the limit in bullets.
 
   I think the 300 is a over kill for deer, good forelk or bear.
Just afew things to think about.
First find the right gun then match it with the right scope. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 07:39
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Originally posted by pyro6999 pyro6999 wrote:

Originally posted by dpslusser dpslusser wrote:

Im a noob when it comes to this stuff...but why should I knock my loads back to 150gr?

And why such negativity on the 710?

Is the 700 the best remington out there?

What caliber in the 700 would you go with?
 
the 710 is like a geo metro, its not if but when its going to break, the model 7 and the model 700 are so much better, your caliber is fine, 30-06 is plenty, the reason i like 150's is because i have had really good luck in the accuracy dept with them
 
 The 710 is not a bad gun at all.i have in 300 win mag and it shoots very well.i have actually posted some shot groups with it.As for a good bullet out to 300 yards with a 30-06 i would go with a 165 gr.this will do the trick but the 150 are not a bad chocie at all.
 
i honestly don't get wht the 710 get suck a bad name.I have shot well over 500 rounds thru mine and can still place 5 in the berries.The only thing i know the 710 needed work on was the trigger.but a good smith can fix that with no problem but most any other rifle has a trgger job done when new also.
thats my thoughts anyways.
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 08:40
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the ole marine snipers, for the most part, used the 165-168 grn BTSP in the 30.06's for long range shooting.  There have been confirmed kills out to 900yrds or so w/ the 30.06 as LATE as desert storm. while not near as popular as the .308, it's still a great weapon at longer ranges.  of course, i saw all this on history channel or discovery channel. Wink some of the ole marines should chime in.
 
in MY 30.06, by far the most dependable accurate bullet was the 165 grn BTSP by hornady.
 
my 2 cents.
 
get a good scope and even better mounts.
 
J
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 08:42
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my reasoning:
 
with the 165 grn BTSP, you can acheive the 'baseball bat effect' on deer out to 300+ yards.
 
i have seen it, and it's awesome.
 
J
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 09:06
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In the 30-06 for the longer ranges I'd opt for the 168 or even the 180, the weight helps the bullet to retain energy, of course there are always trade offs.
Scope wise 2.5-10, or 4-16, 3-12, any thing along those lines should be just fine for out to 400 yrds, Get the best glass for your budget. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 09:48
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Can somone exlain why you would drop back to a 150gr? Isn't it, the higher the grain, the faster, the harder, the less bullet drop at a lesser grain?

Why would i want to go to a smaller scope if I want to shoot at farther yardage? I want to be able to shoot at any size animal, down to a groundhog size.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 09:58
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Originally posted by Acenturian Acenturian wrote:

I would also recommend a good 4-12 or 4-16 powered scope for shooting out to 300 yards.   The 150 gr. bullet will give you a bit better trajectory at longer ranges.
 
Perhaps 400 yards with lots of practice or unless someone is an ex-military sniper.
 
500 yards ... get closer no matter what your using.  Sorry, at that range and maybe this is the bow hunter coming out but that is not hunting that is sniping.  Yes, they make some Whiz Bang Uber magnums that fly flatter then a laser beam and they will reach out there but part of hunting is learning to get close enough to make a good clean kill at acceptable ranges that does not result in injured animals getting away.
 
K nuff of my soap box.  I think the 710 is fine (Like the 700 better) .30/06 is a fine cartridge and has done the job and done it well for over a 100 years.  If its the scope it came with then I would definitly up-grade.
Depending on your price range I'd look at the Nikon Buckmaster, Nikon Monarch, Burris FullField, Burris Signature, Sightron SII or the Weaver GrandSlam.
 
 


I respect  your thoughts on getting closer. And that too is also how I think. But if you read my original post. The average yardage how I was set up, would of been around 200 yards. here were only 2-3 spots  were it would of been 300-500 yards. And if a monster buck showed it self in those areas (rumor had it there was one), I would love to have that sense of feeling, that I could take those yardages without second thought. I hardly ever hunt those ranges for deer. But other animals;smaller animals, such as fox, coyote, groundhog, even beer once in a while.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/27/2007 at 10:07
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Whats the best load to be shooting. I see here thats its a wash out between the 150 and 165. Ive always stuck with the 165gr. I use lighter loads for smaller game. Like 130's or something lke that. But im not talking about that. Im talking about bigger game. So...one guy suggested Hornady ammo.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 03:02
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Originally posted by dpslusser dpslusser wrote:

Can somone exlain why you would drop back to a 150gr? Isn't it, the higher the grain, the faster, the harder, the less bullet drop at a lesser grain?

Why would i want to go to a smaller scope if I want to shoot at farther yardage? I want to be able to shoot at any size animal, down to a groundhog size.
 
It is actually the other way round. Gr is a measurement of weight, so the higher the grain the heavier the bullet is. The heavier an object is, the more difficult it is to throw it at a longer distance. So a light bullet, say 150 gr will travel faster and more horizontally then a heavy bullet, say a 180 gr. The flight path in relationship to the horisontal line is called the trajectory. The flatter the trajectory, the easier it becomes to hit a target at further distances, as you need not aim much above the target. however, before you rush out and buy the lightest bullet you can find, the trade off's. A light bullet is easily effected by wind. Most importantly it does not carry the kinetic energy for the "baseball effect". In other words heavier bullets has more off a knockdown effect and are less effeceted by cross-winds. So the trade off is a light bullet that travels fast and has a flat trajectory, or a heavy bullet that travels slower, has a high trajectory but good knockdown effect.
In this regard the 165 gr is good middle ground for a 30-06.
I would go for a scope of 3-10x40 or 50, unless you want to do target shooting, then a 14 or 20x can be handy.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 06:17
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I believe you will find the 165 grain bullet to be the best bet for longer range in your caliber. 10X will be enough power for longer shots on deer and won't complicate your life with things like adjustable objectives. If you want a dual purpose rig for ground hogs and other varmints at longer range than the aforementioned 4x14 or 4x16 power will be better. Hornady inner locs, nosler ballistic tips and paritions, and sierra game kings are all good bullet choices. The new innerbonds and accubonds are great choices that do well close and way out there. Keep the rifle if it shoots good and upgrade the optics, spend some time really shooting at the longer distances and you will be more confidant and know where your shot is really going way out there. Shot my first deer in Potter co. Pa. nice country. You'll find the most important thing on those long shots is making use of anything around you for a good solid and steady rest. Good Hunting.....

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Wow guys, thanks for the help. I do use a Harris Bi-pod when ever I get the chance. That sure does make a difference. Thanks for the info about Bullet Gr. I guess I never really looked into. But it makes prefect sense now. I guess the main thing for me to do, is look into a new scope. 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 10:19
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I might as well add my .02 cents.   Snipers using .308 are using the 175gr Sierra Matchking and for 300 win mag the 190gr Sierra Matchking. The .308 is about a 700 to 800 yd rifle before the bullet drops sub sonic and developes some instability.  Since the 30-06 is just a tad faster pushing the same bullets as a .308 there is most certainly NOTHING WRONG WITH THE CHOICE OF CALIBER !!!  I have shot a deer at 600 yds with a 30-06 and at that distance it makes little difference if you use a 150 or a 165 or a 168 or a 175 or a 180 grain etc bullet.  As long as you know the trajectory of the particular bullet you use and can hit reliably any of these bullets will kill deer at the distances you are attempting to shoot.  If your rifle shoots a tight group keep it if it's a little loose trade up to a model 700 and when you are ready have the stock glass bedded and free float the barrel and have the trigger worked on. There are many other things that can be done to increase the accuracy of a rifle
http://www.gaprecision.net/  a few minutes on this site should provide some info.  As for optics there are trade-offs in features like higher power scopes need a larger front objective to produce a useable exit eye pupil ( how much light it lets through) or dial the power down at dark to brighten the scope.  Many people shoot a thousand yards with open sights so a high power scope is not a necesity but can be a pleasure on a rifle range, too much power in the field can work against you if you are close, stalking, in timber etc. Most people find a 3-9x40 is about right some like a little more power like a 4-16 and I have some of each but lean toward the Leupold VXIII 4.5-14x50 with a 30mm tube and the Bushnell 4200 4-16x40 as my favorites but I tend to hunt from a stand rather than stalk, when I stalk I use an aimpoint red dot but would highly recommend Trijicon Accupoint scopes the illuminated objective does help and is very fast. 

AMMUNITION BALLISTICS FOR: .30-06

 
 
      VELOCITY ENERGY TRAJECTORY
CARTRIDGE BULLET MFG. WT. TYPE MUZZ. 100 YDS. 200 YDS. 300 YDS. 400 YDS. 500 YDS. MUZZ. 100 YDS. 200 YDS. 300 YDS. 400 YDS. 500 YDS. 100 YDS. 300 YDS. 400 YDS. 500 YDS.
30-06 (R) 55 ACEl 4080 3484 2964 2499 2080 1706 2033 1482 1073 763 528 355 +0.7 -4.7 -15.0 -33.6
(L) 123 FMJ 2936 2599 2286 1995 1728 1490 2364 1853 1433 1092 819 609 +1.8 -8.5 -25.9 -54.9
(S) 125 SP 3140 2480 2447 2135 1853 1595 2736 2145 1662 1269 953 706 +1.5 -7.4 -22.4 -47.6
(R) 125 SP 2660 2335 2034 1757 1509 1300 1964 1513 1148 856 632 469 +2.5 -10.9 -33.2 -70.9
(W) 147 FMJ 3020 2794 2579 2374 2178 1992 2976 2548 2171 1839 1549 1295 +1.5 -6.7 -19.6 -39.9
(S) 150 SP 2910 2617 2342 2083 1843 1622 2820 2281 1827 1445 1131 876 +2.1 -8.5 -25.0 -51.8
(R) 150 BP 2910 2656 2416 2189 1974 1773 2820 2349 1944 1596 1298 1047 +1.7 -7.7 -22.7 -46.6
(W) 150 SP 2960 2705 2464 2235 2919 1815 2919 2437 2022 1664 1358 1098 +1.6 -7.4 -21.7 -44.6
(Hi) 150 SP 2936 2711 2498 2294 2099 1915 2872 2449 2078 1753 1468 1221 +1.6 -7.2 -21.0 -42.8
(H) 150 SST-LM 3100 2860 2631 2414 2208 2013 3200 2724 2306 1941 1624 1350 +1.4 -6.6 -19.2 -38.6
(SB) 150 SP 2887 2555 2262 2002 1749 1520 2770 2170 1700 1332 1019 770 +1.9 -8.6 -26.0 -55.0
(S) 150 HP 2910 2700 2490 2300 2110
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 10:35
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Excellent info there urimaginary, I'm sure folks will find it useful.
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.30-06 Sprg., 165 gr. IB
85159
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
3015/3330 2802/2876 2599/2474 2405/2118 2219/1803 2041/1526
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 1.50 0.00 -6.60 -19.30 -39.00
   This is the info from the Hornady site. they list the ballistics for all their ammunition. Note that this is a light mag shell,Which from what I understand you can shoot in a bolt action only.
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 10:58
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I dont have a 30-06. I am useing a 308,and for those of you that are using one also here is some Info on the Light mag round I am going to try.
.308 Win., 165 gr. BTSP
8598
Velocity (fps) / Energy (ft-lbs)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
2880/3038 2668/2607 2465/2226 2272/1890 2087/1595 1911/1337
Trajectory (inches)
Muzzle 100 yd 200 yd 300 yd 400 yd 500 yd
-1.50 1.70 0.00 -7.40 -21.60 -43.80
 
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)     Back to Top Direct Link To This Post Posted: November/29/2007 at 11:00
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Absolutely keep us posted.
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